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	<title>Comments on: Jane&#8217;s:  N. Korean Regime Near Collapse</title>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-56827</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 19:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/#comment-56827</guid>
		<description>Certainly both will be factors, but my point here is that while the lack of food, repression, dull early-morning self-criticism sessions, midnight home searches, lack of electricity, Army looting, and any number of provocations may have had the people angry and discontented for a decade or more, the North Korean people didn&#039;t rise up.

Why not?  Well, surviving does tend to sap your energy for plotting revolution.  And the regime is very accomplished at managing hunger in its most discontented regions (we&#039;ll probably learn much more about that one day).  So in fact, people are probably more likely to rise up when they&#039;re fed adequately to have some physical and mental energy.

There have been plenty of scattered rebellions and acts of dissent.  They were isolated, contained, and crushed because (a) news can&#039;t travel easily in North Korea, and (b) people are too afraid to join efforts with which they may sympathize.

Is this Chris from the old FNK site?  If so, I&#039;m always glad to hear from you.  If not, it&#039;s still a good comment.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly both will be factors, but my point here is that while the lack of food, repression, dull early-morning self-criticism sessions, midnight home searches, lack of electricity, Army looting, and any number of provocations may have had the people angry and discontented for a decade or more, the North Korean people didn&#8217;t rise up.</p>
<p>Why not?  Well, surviving does tend to sap your energy for plotting revolution.  And the regime is very accomplished at managing hunger in its most discontented regions (we&#8217;ll probably learn much more about that one day).  So in fact, people are probably more likely to rise up when they&#8217;re fed adequately to have some physical and mental energy.</p>
<p>There have been plenty of scattered rebellions and acts of dissent.  They were isolated, contained, and crushed because (a) news can&#8217;t travel easily in North Korea, and (b) people are too afraid to join efforts with which they may sympathize.</p>
<p>Is this Chris from the old FNK site?  If so, I&#8217;m always glad to hear from you.  If not, it&#8217;s still a good comment.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-56824</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/#comment-56824</guid>
		<description>&quot;The decisive factor wonâ€™t be food or even information.  It will be fear.&quot;

The decisive factor will be when food becomes more important than fear. Remember that the Russian Revolution of February 1917 began as a riot by mothers in Petrograd who couldn&#039;t find enough food for their children. The Tsar&#039;s troops&#039; bloody crackdown only encouraged more people to join. By the end of the day, Karensky was in power and Lenin was on his way back from exile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The decisive factor wonâ€™t be food or even information.  It will be fear.&#8221;</p>
<p>The decisive factor will be when food becomes more important than fear. Remember that the Russian Revolution of February 1917 began as a riot by mothers in Petrograd who couldn&#8217;t find enough food for their children. The Tsar&#8217;s troops&#8217; bloody crackdown only encouraged more people to join. By the end of the day, Karensky was in power and Lenin was on his way back from exile.</p>
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		<title>By: Chopsticks</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-56259</link>
		<dc:creator>Chopsticks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/#comment-56259</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just speculating but since there was some uproar regarding Chinese history texts claiming North Korea as part of Koguryeo (sp), wouldn&#039;t there be some speculation that China also has contingency plans for the collapse of NK as well? I.E. Kim Jong Il flees to China and allows Chinese troops to occupy the North ala Tibet? Maybe far-fetched but I can&#039;t say for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just speculating but since there was some uproar regarding Chinese history texts claiming North Korea as part of Koguryeo (sp), wouldn&#8217;t there be some speculation that China also has contingency plans for the collapse of NK as well? I.E. Kim Jong Il flees to China and allows Chinese troops to occupy the North ala Tibet? Maybe far-fetched but I can&#8217;t say for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: AgentX</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-56209</link>
		<dc:creator>AgentX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/#comment-56209</guid>
		<description>I reserve the right to be skeptical, but the evidence you have gathered here is quite telling.
Today in the Korea Times, reports are coming in that the North wants to reduce inter-Korean railway traffic, citing &quot;lack of cargo&quot;. More likely, they want less eyes viewing the chaos.
Also today the North is requesting a peace treaty be drawn up. I find that to be a quite interesting sign.
And the &quot;Great leader&quot; is heading to China to discuss &quot;Economic Reform&quot;.  If Jane&#039;s is accurate, then perhaps he&#039;s looking for a place to hide. 

So my question is this: Are we at a &quot;tipping point&quot; for the regime and if so, how many months will it be before a collapse? More importantly, how will South Korea react if the North collapses in an &quot;overnight&quot; fashion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I reserve the right to be skeptical, but the evidence you have gathered here is quite telling.<br />
Today in the Korea Times, reports are coming in that the North wants to reduce inter-Korean railway traffic, citing &#8220;lack of cargo&#8221;. More likely, they want less eyes viewing the chaos.<br />
Also today the North is requesting a peace treaty be drawn up. I find that to be a quite interesting sign.<br />
And the &#8220;Great leader&#8221; is heading to China to discuss &#8220;Economic Reform&#8221;.  If Jane&#8217;s is accurate, then perhaps he&#8217;s looking for a place to hide. </p>
<p>So my question is this: Are we at a &#8220;tipping point&#8221; for the regime and if so, how many months will it be before a collapse? More importantly, how will South Korea react if the North collapses in an &#8220;overnight&#8221; fashion?</p>
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		<title>By: usinkorea</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-56205</link>
		<dc:creator>usinkorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 01:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/#comment-56205</guid>
		<description>As for China stepping in to save the day, a lot matters on timing and other factors.  China was not seen to step in (or be invited in or however you want to phrase it) to save th 3 million during the great famine even though it looked like collapse was going to come.  China  helped as did others but not with the kind of knee-jerk, immediate, survival-at-all-costs we might be talking about.

I guess I mean that there are some points of departure from which even train loads from China cannot save the regime.  

With all the various factors and ebbs and flows, North Korea walks a think tightrope.  It has been doing so skillfully for years.  But on a tightrope it does trod.

That is why if NK collapsed tomorrow, it wouldn&#039;t be a surprise to those who watch it.  Nor would it be if the collapse doesn&#039;t come for another 10 years.

North Korea is a survivor.  But it is also terminal.  And it will collapse ultimately in any one of a possible chain of events. 

As for the long term, however much China wants to keep the North alive, it has to factor in costs-to-benefits.  NK means more to China than it did the Soviet Union, but the Soviet Union ended up regretting the funding it wasted on the North for so long.  China will not end up perpetually running an open-ended comittment to the North.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for China stepping in to save the day, a lot matters on timing and other factors.  China was not seen to step in (or be invited in or however you want to phrase it) to save th 3 million during the great famine even though it looked like collapse was going to come.  China  helped as did others but not with the kind of knee-jerk, immediate, survival-at-all-costs we might be talking about.</p>
<p>I guess I mean that there are some points of departure from which even train loads from China cannot save the regime.  </p>
<p>With all the various factors and ebbs and flows, North Korea walks a think tightrope.  It has been doing so skillfully for years.  But on a tightrope it does trod.</p>
<p>That is why if NK collapsed tomorrow, it wouldn&#8217;t be a surprise to those who watch it.  Nor would it be if the collapse doesn&#8217;t come for another 10 years.</p>
<p>North Korea is a survivor.  But it is also terminal.  And it will collapse ultimately in any one of a possible chain of events. </p>
<p>As for the long term, however much China wants to keep the North alive, it has to factor in costs-to-benefits.  NK means more to China than it did the Soviet Union, but the Soviet Union ended up regretting the funding it wasted on the North for so long.  China will not end up perpetually running an open-ended comittment to the North.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-56202</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/#comment-56202</guid>
		<description>testing, testing.  Please rescue my comment from the spam trap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>testing, testing.  Please rescue my comment from the spam trap.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-56201</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/#comment-56201</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I know, I know: saying that North Koreaâ€™s regime could collapse in six months is a lot like saying someone else could step forward to accuse Bill Clinton of sexual harassment sometime between now and November. Thereâ€™s a certain unpredictable inevitability to either contingency. &lt;/em&gt;

Is there?  I honestly cannot recall any post-presidency accusations.  Refresh my memory.  Moreover, some of the women who claimed to have had sexual relations with Clinton, like Gennifer Flowers, did so voluntarily.  That is not sexual harassment.  A better analogy:  saying that North Korea&#039;s regime could collapse in six months is a lot like saying someone else could step forward to accuse the Bush administration of lying about Iraq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I know, I know: saying that North Koreaâ€™s regime could collapse in six months is a lot like saying someone else could step forward to accuse Bill Clinton of sexual harassment sometime between now and November. Thereâ€™s a certain unpredictable inevitability to either contingency. </em></p>
<p>Is there?  I honestly cannot recall any post-presidency accusations.  Refresh my memory.  Moreover, some of the women who claimed to have had sexual relations with Clinton, like Gennifer Flowers, did so voluntarily.  That is not sexual harassment.  A better analogy:  saying that North Korea&#8217;s regime could collapse in six months is a lot like saying someone else could step forward to accuse the Bush administration of lying about Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: Gray Hat</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-56200</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray Hat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/#comment-56200</guid>
		<description>I imagine China would supply anything necessary -- trains full of food and medicine, private jets full of cognac, a few thousand volunteer plainclothes PSB enforcers -- to ensure that this does not happen until after the Olympics.  So it might happen in 2008.  But I can&#039;t see it happening in the next six months.  Indeed, if the Pyongyang is showing signs of imminent collapse, it is not inconceivable that the signals are intended to squeeze as much as possible out of the rich uncle who could not stand to be embarrassed -- or upstaged -- right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I imagine China would supply anything necessary &#8212; trains full of food and medicine, private jets full of cognac, a few thousand volunteer plainclothes PSB enforcers &#8212; to ensure that this does not happen until after the Olympics.  So it might happen in 2008.  But I can&#8217;t see it happening in the next six months.  Indeed, if the Pyongyang is showing signs of imminent collapse, it is not inconceivable that the signals are intended to squeeze as much as possible out of the rich uncle who could not stand to be embarrassed &#8212; or upstaged &#8212; right now.</p>
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		<title>By: usinkorea</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-56197</link>
		<dc:creator>usinkorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekorea.us/2008/01/26/janes-n-korean-regime-near-collapse/#comment-56197</guid>
		<description>At the new year, I was feeling down on my prediction a year ago that the NK regime wouldn&#039;t live to see 2009.  Of course, I was going on gut instinct more than anything....well....on bits and pieces of information quickly pulled from the news.  Much of it was along the lines you mentioned --- knowing NK has been near collapse continuously since the early 1990s, pondering the conditioning of the different segments of the society that must have produced, and especially taking into account the economic banking sanctions the US was able to get China and others to go along with.

Most of all, what got my ears to prick up were the actions and words coming out Pyongyang on a variety of issues.  To me, as I&#039;ve said before, NK testing a nuclear device so soon after launching the ICBM was a very big event.  To me, the most likely reason was pure desperation within the regime.  Other things over the past year from the North have also seemed desperate for a regime that likes to project strength.

Any high level of desperation in Pyongyang most likely means they are afraid the end is near.  And they would know better than any outside expert (unless they were delusional, but in that case, they would usually fail to see the coming collapse than be too eager to proclaim it).

I thought, however, when Bush flipflopped on the North, especially perhaps turning back on NK&#039;s illegal money laundering avenues (though I don&#039;t really know to what extent the sanctions have been reversed????), that my no 2009 prediction was dead in the water.

This from Jane&#039;s makes me feel a lot better about it, and there was another item the last couple of months from experts far more knowledgeable than me that gave me hope, but I have completely forgotten where I read it....

Of course, time will tell.............</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the new year, I was feeling down on my prediction a year ago that the NK regime wouldn&#8217;t live to see 2009.  Of course, I was going on gut instinct more than anything&#8230;.well&#8230;.on bits and pieces of information quickly pulled from the news.  Much of it was along the lines you mentioned &#8212; knowing NK has been near collapse continuously since the early 1990s, pondering the conditioning of the different segments of the society that must have produced, and especially taking into account the economic banking sanctions the US was able to get China and others to go along with.</p>
<p>Most of all, what got my ears to prick up were the actions and words coming out Pyongyang on a variety of issues.  To me, as I&#8217;ve said before, NK testing a nuclear device so soon after launching the ICBM was a very big event.  To me, the most likely reason was pure desperation within the regime.  Other things over the past year from the North have also seemed desperate for a regime that likes to project strength.</p>
<p>Any high level of desperation in Pyongyang most likely means they are afraid the end is near.  And they would know better than any outside expert (unless they were delusional, but in that case, they would usually fail to see the coming collapse than be too eager to proclaim it).</p>
<p>I thought, however, when Bush flipflopped on the North, especially perhaps turning back on NK&#8217;s illegal money laundering avenues (though I don&#8217;t really know to what extent the sanctions have been reversed????), that my no 2009 prediction was dead in the water.</p>
<p>This from Jane&#8217;s makes me feel a lot better about it, and there was another item the last couple of months from experts far more knowledgeable than me that gave me hope, but I have completely forgotten where I read it&#8230;.</p>
<p>Of course, time will tell&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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