Comments on: The Six Two One Party Talks, or Masturbatory Diplomacy http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/ Wed, 23 May 2012 01:27:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: OneFreeKorea » North Korea’s Next Tantrum http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/comment-page-1/#comment-58485 OneFreeKorea » North Korea’s Next Tantrum Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:42:04 +0000 http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/#comment-58485 [...] For reasons that aren’t completely clear to me, Bush has paused, for now, the granting of unconditional concessions, most significantly on de-listing North Korea as a state sponsor of terrorism.  Maybe he’s finally come to his senses, but my best guess is that he’s run out of political capital.  The key causes of that political bankruptcy were (a) the delayed revelations about the al-Kibar reactor and North Korea’s role in it, (b) the “Singapore Surrender” in which Hill and Rice agreed not to press for answers on uranium, proliferation, or actual nuclear weapons, and (c) what seemed very much like the imminent removal of North Korea from the list of state sponsors of terrorism and the lifting of other key sanctions, as early as yesterday.  Now the administration says that’s not going to happen … yet:     “Our requirement for moving forward on delisting is a rigorous verification regime and a verification protocol, and until we get there I think we’ve been clear that delisting can’t go forward,” said White House spokesman Tony Fratto. [AFP] “At this point it is reasonable to say that [August 11th] probably will come and go without that happening,'’ Dennis Wilder, the National Security Council director for Asia, told reporters in Beijing today. “We are in discussions with the North. We continue to try to work with them on this question of a robust verification regime.'’  [….] [...] [...] For reasons that aren’t completely clear to me, Bush has paused, for now, the granting of unconditional concessions, most significantly on de-listing North Korea as a state sponsor of terrorism.  Maybe he’s finally come to his senses, but my best guess is that he’s run out of political capital.  The key causes of that political bankruptcy were (a) the delayed revelations about the al-Kibar reactor and North Korea’s role in it, (b) the “Singapore Surrender” in which Hill and Rice agreed not to press for answers on uranium, proliferation, or actual nuclear weapons, and (c) what seemed very much like the imminent removal of North Korea from the list of state sponsors of terrorism and the lifting of other key sanctions, as early as yesterday.  Now the administration says that’s not going to happen … yet:     “Our requirement for moving forward on delisting is a rigorous verification regime and a verification protocol, and until we get there I think we’ve been clear that delisting can’t go forward,” said White House spokesman Tony Fratto. [AFP] “At this point it is reasonable to say that [August 11th] probably will come and go without that happening,’’ Dennis Wilder, the National Security Council director for Asia, told reporters in Beijing today. “We are in discussions with the North. We continue to try to work with them on this question of a robust verification regime.’’  [….] [...]

]]> By: OneFreeKorea » The Death of an Alliance, Part 68 http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/comment-page-1/#comment-57575 OneFreeKorea » The Death of an Alliance, Part 68 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:26:01 +0000 http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/#comment-57575 [...] The same, incidentally, is even more true of our most important Asian ally, Japan, which is also spitting out the teeth we’ve just kicked in by consigning Japanese abductees to rot in hell and absolving North Korea of the consequences for holding them.  To quote Colin Powell, this is not how allies deal with each other.  It tempts you to weigh those costs against the likely benefits.  With the North Koreans giving up essentially nothing and successfully splitting us from our friends, you have to wonder what vital U.S. interest the Administration’s current strategy is remotely likely to secure. [...] [...] The same, incidentally, is even more true of our most important Asian ally, Japan, which is also spitting out the teeth we’ve just kicked in by consigning Japanese abductees to rot in hell and absolving North Korea of the consequences for holding them.  To quote Colin Powell, this is not how allies deal with each other.  It tempts you to weigh those costs against the likely benefits.  With the North Koreans giving up essentially nothing and successfully splitting us from our friends, you have to wonder what vital U.S. interest the Administration’s current strategy is remotely likely to secure. [...]

]]> By: I will believe it when I see it | DPRK Forum http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/comment-page-1/#comment-57568 I will believe it when I see it | DPRK Forum Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:03:28 +0000 http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/#comment-57568 [...] Hm, really? I will believe it when I see it. So far, all the promises for a declaration have all been for naught for a really long time, and if the DPRK does finally give some declaration, I would be very, very surprised. On the other hand, for a more detailed version of how the talks progressed to maybe, just maybe to get to this point can be found on OFK. After reading that, it seemed pretty clear to me Kim will still get what he wants in the end. Kim knows damn well nothing happened for nothing delivered in December, so why should he worry about delivering a declaration by the end of this month? What changed in the agreement to change his mind and be a good boy? In my opinion, nothing at all. The entire process has been a disaster just like the times before. The U.S. will start talks on removing North Korea from its list of state sponsors of terrorism once the communist nation provides the declaration, the Seoul-based newspaper cited the official as saying. The steps are part of an agreement reached by the two countries in talks in Singapore last week, it said. [...] [...] Hm, really? I will believe it when I see it. So far, all the promises for a declaration have all been for naught for a really long time, and if the DPRK does finally give some declaration, I would be very, very surprised. On the other hand, for a more detailed version of how the talks progressed to maybe, just maybe to get to this point can be found on OFK. After reading that, it seemed pretty clear to me Kim will still get what he wants in the end. Kim knows damn well nothing happened for nothing delivered in December, so why should he worry about delivering a declaration by the end of this month? What changed in the agreement to change his mind and be a good boy? In my opinion, nothing at all. The entire process has been a disaster just like the times before. The U.S. will start talks on removing North Korea from its list of state sponsors of terrorism once the communist nation provides the declaration, the Seoul-based newspaper cited the official as saying. The steps are part of an agreement reached by the two countries in talks in Singapore last week, it said. [...]

]]> By: usinkorea http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/comment-page-1/#comment-57562 usinkorea Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:23:13 +0000 http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/#comment-57562 I am in need these days of looking for silver linings, and the one I continue to (ignorantly) clasp onto in all of this is --- ----the only way this remotely comes close to making sense is --- if the intel people have concluded firmly that North Korea is right around the corner from making a fast plunge toward full collapse --- and ---- our government has decided they can't let that happen. We've seen some non-government intel or other sources tell us recently that, in fact, North Korea is suffering more actutely than we've seen in a decade, and some have said collapse is coming. And, it absolutely fits in the unimaginative, status quo mold that is government to quickly decide the worst possible thing that could happen is for North Korea to collapse. (Hey, we convinced everybody leaving Hussein in power in the early 1990s was the intelligent thing to do...) But, even if all of this is true ---- why am I clinging to hope? Because, I haven't heard about any big, fat ships brimming over the top with rice and other food stuffs leaving American (or Chinese) ports heading for North Korea. Earlier on, I worried that the banking sanctions had been fully reversed or reversed enough to take the "tipping point pressure" off Pyongyang. I don't know if the North's banking channel problems are still major or not. But, enough time has passed since the Bush administration started its back-flipping to help Kim Jong Il "comply" with whatever and everything..... .....and the North is still hurting......that I can guess that the banking sanctions being lifted or not is not going to be enough to bring Pyongyang back into any type of comfort zone. Which means ---- that seeing Hill and Bush and Rice take turns seeing how far up Kim Jong Il's rectum they can force Uncle Sam's head ----- actually gives me hope --- in this line of thinking. Because if the Bush administration is willing to keep going further and further and further and further ---- each time picking up critics and giving ammunition to enemies ---- and slapping allies in the face like Japan and probably President Lee's new administration as well.... ---- then Pyongyang must still be hurting enough to cause fear of collapse. So, until I see massive amounts of food aid being shipped into the North on the scale of the great famine ending period ---- I'll keep up hope that even our policy of appeasement will be done ineptly enough that it will not save the North from collapsing. I am in need these days of looking for silver linings, and the one I continue to (ignorantly) clasp onto in all of this is —

—-the only way this remotely comes close to making sense is —
if the intel people have concluded firmly that North Korea is right around the corner from making a fast plunge toward full collapse — and —- our government has decided they can’t let that happen.

We’ve seen some non-government intel or other sources tell us recently that, in fact, North Korea is suffering more actutely than we’ve seen in a decade, and some have said collapse is coming.

And, it absolutely fits in the unimaginative, status quo mold that is government to quickly decide the worst possible thing that could happen is for North Korea to collapse. (Hey, we convinced everybody leaving Hussein in power in the early 1990s was the intelligent thing to do…)

But, even if all of this is true —- why am I clinging to hope?

Because, I haven’t heard about any big, fat ships brimming over the top with rice and other food stuffs leaving American (or Chinese) ports heading for North Korea.

Earlier on, I worried that the banking sanctions had been fully reversed or reversed enough to take the “tipping point pressure” off Pyongyang.

I don’t know if the North’s banking channel problems are still major or not.

But, enough time has passed since the Bush administration started its back-flipping to help Kim Jong Il “comply” with whatever and everything…..

…..and the North is still hurting……that I can guess that the banking sanctions being lifted or not is not going to be enough to bring Pyongyang back into any type of comfort zone.

Which means —- that seeing Hill and Bush and Rice take turns seeing how far up Kim Jong Il’s rectum they can force Uncle Sam’s head —– actually gives me hope — in this line of thinking.

Because if the Bush administration is willing to keep going further and further and further and further —- each time picking up critics and giving ammunition to enemies —- and slapping allies in the face like Japan and probably President Lee’s new administration as well….

—- then Pyongyang must still be hurting enough to cause fear of collapse.

So, until I see massive amounts of food aid being shipped into the North on the scale of the great famine ending period —- I’ll keep up hope that even our policy of appeasement will be done ineptly enough that it will not save the North from collapsing.

]]> By: Joo http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/comment-page-1/#comment-57561 Joo Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:32:00 +0000 http://freekorea.us/2008/04/15/the-six-two-one-party-talks-or-masturbatory-diplomacy/#comment-57561 Verification can not be compromised. It must be sound, absolute and without fail. Condi's statement sounds like a desperate last 'gasp,' if you will, of a fast-fading administration. Verification can not be compromised. It must be sound, absolute and without fail. Condi’s statement sounds like a desperate last ‘gasp,’ if you will, of a fast-fading administration.

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