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	<title>Comments on: The Bag Man:  Bill Clinton in Pyongyang</title>
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		<title>By: Aliou Niane</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68431</link>
		<dc:creator>Aliou Niane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 06:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68431</guid>
		<description>This is an excellent diplomatic touch by Bill Clinton and a political capital for Kim Jong-Il.
Comrade Kim Jong-Il languished for years to meet a High US political figure like Bill Clinton. Since his father met Madeleine Albright, he has to prove to the Korean people that he is as powerful as his later father to whom he dreams to emulate both in tyranny and grandeur. 

I am a strong advocate of the two-party talk for the following reasons:
1-	The best timing since the Korean armistice with the president Eisenhower. Kim Jong-Il certainly like the Clintons (Not Trust) because it was his administration that sent Madeleine Albright
2-	He like and may be trust his old pal Bill Richardson
3-	Kim Jong-Il would certainly be willing to open a window on his country if he could get a non-aggression assurance from Barrack Obama himself
Kim will be able to nurture his ego in front of China because the old-brother is not present to scold or influence the talk. Jong-il who is born is 1941 (according to his official biography) is older that Hu Jin Tao December 1942.  In a Confucian society, this is something of a huge importance. Although China is considered the older Brother, its leader  Hu is younger than Kim of North Korea.
Jimmy Cater in his book â€œOur endangered Valuesâ€ (page 107) wrote that North Korean late president Kim Il-Sun responding to several years of invitations expressed his deep concern from the Chinese leaders. DPRK would prefer to take the lead on any direct and secret with the US.
I agree with most that North Korea leaders may give one signal and act erratically, but if the US is to get something from the North Korea a direct talk would denifitely earn a better result.
But Japan and may be South Korea may want to keep the six-party talk alive, something understandable, but North Korea reading the tea leave of North Korean leaders, they already assumed that both Japan and South Korea are under the US nuclear umbrella therefore why bother listening to them.
Whatever the outcome with the US, DPRK rightly believes that the other two ccountries would follow  Japan and South Korea).
 
Despite North Korea bellicose attitude,  if we look back the past fifteen years there have been windows of opportunities to work out differences and may clear a platform on which peace could be built upon.

The Juche doctrine (Self-reliance) on which the whole ideology was built is non-existent as North Korea relies more and more on charity from South Korea , US , Japan and mainly China although, as soon as these are delivered Korean labor party (ì¡°ì„ ë¡œë™ë‹¹) Joson Rodontang members a quick to put the motherlandâ€™s  stamps  on them.
North Korean is not on the brink of collapse but the system is sustained by the â€œfeeding tubeâ€ of the countries she calls Imperialist American its  South Korea fantosh and militarist Japan. We all know these are just sounds of crying babies what else to call a country with which they  are still technically at war.
North korea knows that it may loose any future war, but the dictator knows that would also mean the end of the regim, therefore, it is ready to drop the  million of shells on Seoul and other south Korean major cities and even Japan just do more arm to all in the way a suicide commando terrorist would end a loosing war.

The negotitions, according to both (former) secretary Madeleine Albright  and Jimmy Carter, North Korea wants to pursue direct talks (without China) and secret (TO keep a high profile) with it own people.

North Korea is looking for three discussions points (Not in order of importance)
1-	No Hostile Intention â€“ meaning no war and no subversive actions against the regim
2-	Diplomatic relationships with the US
3-	Reunification 

Let elaborate a little bit on each of these points:
1-	No Hostile Intention â€“ In my view This is certainly  the most sensitive point for North korea . It is tough in every class-room, every political meeting, every news. During the past 50 years the regim is paranoiac to anything not under the control of the system that is assuring that the country is safe oh, I should say that the Kim and team are safe and could hold onto power for centuries. 
Not surprise, because the DPRK has done nothing but build a military arsenal and draft millions of young men into one of the world largest army.
I believe with people like Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and Madeleine Albright, Bill Richardson and maybe Al Gore the US  can bend North Korean leadership to execute the â€œ1994  agreed frameworkâ€ and stop building its nuclear arsenal in return for a light water nuclear reactors units supervise under US and south Korean engineers. 
Kim Jong Il will be very happy to meet these honorable statemen and save face on the other hands Obama can still keep denying having sent anyone and thatâ€™s fine as North Korea would also prefer to have secret talks by denying and even broadcasting propaganda message to the korean people.
The other reason this definitely give an opportunity to the system to implode, because there are extremist core ideologues who are benefiting from the statu-quo and would never welome an overture with the west. That is also a good thing, let Kim deal with them

2-	Diplomatic relationships with the US
This is only a ceremonial event to show the world that the two countries now are at peace and welcome each other.
The rest of western world without negative label may accept the North; the country would start moving positively toward the modern world.
When North Korea will gain credibility on world stage, it clean image would allow investors from South Korea, China and the rest world build the dilapidated economy.

3-	Reunification
North Korea dearest dream is to get out of the grips of China.  For thousands of years Korea has been vassals of the Chinese empire. Now it is time to stand to the big brother who has become rich and more arrogant toward the younger. 
I must be cautious here but from my observation, the Korean people and the leadership of DPRK has a remarkable disdain for Chinese policy toward it nation. 
 I read recently that Hu Yaobang the 6th General Secretary of the Communist Party of China who was in office between 1982 â€“ 1987 visited North Korea, confided to Kim Il-Sung about Chinaâ€™s policy before Kimâ€™s tour to Eastern Europe in 1984. I was in my second year at Wonsan University.
 Kim in return, told Eric Honneker (DDR ) East German president &gt;.
Interesting prediction by Kim Il-Sung, we can see here that DPRK fear of the Chinese leadership to follow the true socialism course intended in the early years of the long march for which they fought and stood firmly in the 50 â€“ 70 thought against the west. 
Hundred of thousands of Chinese blood were lost to save Kim Il-sungâ€™s regim during the Korean war June 25, 1950 â€“ July 1953), but you would find no Chinese artifact at Pyongyang war museum or Chinese voluntary army mentioned in any of the scholar books.  
 Since that forced reunification, with disastrously failed, DPRK remained very worried about the outcome of any future reunified of the two Koreas.
This is a subject certainly keeping Kim Jong-il awake. The dream of reunification is genuine but with the conditions that a reunited Korea be under the leadership of ì¡°ì„ ë¡œë™ë‹¹) Joson Rodontang  are remote.
Considering todayâ€™s democratic success of the South, It is largely improbable that DPRK leadership can take on a fully democratic system which is alien to its current core socialistic values.
At the beginning the system of two states/two governing bodies (Pure speculation on my part) may the best approach, until the two countries North and South dilute their 50 year venom and rebuild trust again.
I am not sure the German model would work in Korea, however I thing the EU parliamentary system may be a good option.

Reference : 
a)- Madam Secretary a Memoir  Madeleine Albright
b)- Our Endengered Values â€“ President Jimmy Carter
c) Cold War International History Project : http://adjix.com/hghp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excellent diplomatic touch by Bill Clinton and a political capital for Kim Jong-Il.<br />
Comrade Kim Jong-Il languished for years to meet a High US political figure like Bill Clinton. Since his father met Madeleine Albright, he has to prove to the Korean people that he is as powerful as his later father to whom he dreams to emulate both in tyranny and grandeur. </p>
<p>I am a strong advocate of the two-party talk for the following reasons:<br />
1-	The best timing since the Korean armistice with the president Eisenhower. Kim Jong-Il certainly like the Clintons (Not Trust) because it was his administration that sent Madeleine Albright<br />
2-	He like and may be trust his old pal Bill Richardson<br />
3-	Kim Jong-Il would certainly be willing to open a window on his country if he could get a non-aggression assurance from Barrack Obama himself<br />
Kim will be able to nurture his ego in front of China because the old-brother is not present to scold or influence the talk. Jong-il who is born is 1941 (according to his official biography) is older that Hu Jin Tao December 1942.  In a Confucian society, this is something of a huge importance. Although China is considered the older Brother, its leader  Hu is younger than Kim of North Korea.<br />
Jimmy Cater in his book â€œOur endangered Valuesâ€ (page 107) wrote that North Korean late president Kim Il-Sun responding to several years of invitations expressed his deep concern from the Chinese leaders. DPRK would prefer to take the lead on any direct and secret with the US.<br />
I agree with most that North Korea leaders may give one signal and act erratically, but if the US is to get something from the North Korea a direct talk would denifitely earn a better result.<br />
But Japan and may be South Korea may want to keep the six-party talk alive, something understandable, but North Korea reading the tea leave of North Korean leaders, they already assumed that both Japan and South Korea are under the US nuclear umbrella therefore why bother listening to them.<br />
Whatever the outcome with the US, DPRK rightly believes that the other two ccountries would follow  Japan and South Korea).</p>
<p>Despite North Korea bellicose attitude,  if we look back the past fifteen years there have been windows of opportunities to work out differences and may clear a platform on which peace could be built upon.</p>
<p>The Juche doctrine (Self-reliance) on which the whole ideology was built is non-existent as North Korea relies more and more on charity from South Korea , US , Japan and mainly China although, as soon as these are delivered Korean labor party (ì¡°ì„ ë¡œë™ë‹¹) Joson Rodontang members a quick to put the motherlandâ€™s  stamps  on them.<br />
North Korean is not on the brink of collapse but the system is sustained by the â€œfeeding tubeâ€ of the countries she calls Imperialist American its  South Korea fantosh and militarist Japan. We all know these are just sounds of crying babies what else to call a country with which they  are still technically at war.<br />
North korea knows that it may loose any future war, but the dictator knows that would also mean the end of the regim, therefore, it is ready to drop the  million of shells on Seoul and other south Korean major cities and even Japan just do more arm to all in the way a suicide commando terrorist would end a loosing war.</p>
<p>The negotitions, according to both (former) secretary Madeleine Albright  and Jimmy Carter, North Korea wants to pursue direct talks (without China) and secret (TO keep a high profile) with it own people.</p>
<p>North Korea is looking for three discussions points (Not in order of importance)<br />
1-	No Hostile Intention â€“ meaning no war and no subversive actions against the regim<br />
2-	Diplomatic relationships with the US<br />
3-	Reunification </p>
<p>Let elaborate a little bit on each of these points:<br />
1-	No Hostile Intention â€“ In my view This is certainly  the most sensitive point for North korea . It is tough in every class-room, every political meeting, every news. During the past 50 years the regim is paranoiac to anything not under the control of the system that is assuring that the country is safe oh, I should say that the Kim and team are safe and could hold onto power for centuries.<br />
Not surprise, because the DPRK has done nothing but build a military arsenal and draft millions of young men into one of the world largest army.<br />
I believe with people like Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and Madeleine Albright, Bill Richardson and maybe Al Gore the US  can bend North Korean leadership to execute the â€œ1994  agreed frameworkâ€ and stop building its nuclear arsenal in return for a light water nuclear reactors units supervise under US and south Korean engineers.<br />
Kim Jong Il will be very happy to meet these honorable statemen and save face on the other hands Obama can still keep denying having sent anyone and thatâ€™s fine as North Korea would also prefer to have secret talks by denying and even broadcasting propaganda message to the korean people.<br />
The other reason this definitely give an opportunity to the system to implode, because there are extremist core ideologues who are benefiting from the statu-quo and would never welome an overture with the west. That is also a good thing, let Kim deal with them</p>
<p>2-	Diplomatic relationships with the US<br />
This is only a ceremonial event to show the world that the two countries now are at peace and welcome each other.<br />
The rest of western world without negative label may accept the North; the country would start moving positively toward the modern world.<br />
When North Korea will gain credibility on world stage, it clean image would allow investors from South Korea, China and the rest world build the dilapidated economy.</p>
<p>3-	Reunification<br />
North Korea dearest dream is to get out of the grips of China.  For thousands of years Korea has been vassals of the Chinese empire. Now it is time to stand to the big brother who has become rich and more arrogant toward the younger.<br />
I must be cautious here but from my observation, the Korean people and the leadership of DPRK has a remarkable disdain for Chinese policy toward it nation.<br />
 I read recently that Hu Yaobang the 6th General Secretary of the Communist Party of China who was in office between 1982 â€“ 1987 visited North Korea, confided to Kim Il-Sung about Chinaâ€™s policy before Kimâ€™s tour to Eastern Europe in 1984. I was in my second year at Wonsan University.<br />
 Kim in return, told Eric Honneker (DDR ) East German president &gt;.<br />
Interesting prediction by Kim Il-Sung, we can see here that DPRK fear of the Chinese leadership to follow the true socialism course intended in the early years of the long march for which they fought and stood firmly in the 50 â€“ 70 thought against the west.<br />
Hundred of thousands of Chinese blood were lost to save Kim Il-sungâ€™s regim during the Korean war June 25, 1950 â€“ July 1953), but you would find no Chinese artifact at Pyongyang war museum or Chinese voluntary army mentioned in any of the scholar books.<br />
 Since that forced reunification, with disastrously failed, DPRK remained very worried about the outcome of any future reunified of the two Koreas.<br />
This is a subject certainly keeping Kim Jong-il awake. The dream of reunification is genuine but with the conditions that a reunited Korea be under the leadership of ì¡°ì„ ë¡œë™ë‹¹) Joson Rodontang  are remote.<br />
Considering todayâ€™s democratic success of the South, It is largely improbable that DPRK leadership can take on a fully democratic system which is alien to its current core socialistic values.<br />
At the beginning the system of two states/two governing bodies (Pure speculation on my part) may the best approach, until the two countries North and South dilute their 50 year venom and rebuild trust again.<br />
I am not sure the German model would work in Korea, however I thing the EU parliamentary system may be a good option.</p>
<p>Reference :<br />
a)- Madam Secretary a Memoir  Madeleine Albright<br />
b)- Our Endengered Values â€“ President Jimmy Carter<br />
c) Cold War International History Project : <a href="http://adjix.com/hghp" rel="nofollow">http://adjix.com/hghp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Stanton</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68399</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Stanton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68399</guid>
		<description>Jeff, don&#039;t be stupid.  He&#039;s a former POTUS and the pro-forma husband of the Secretary of State.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, don&#8217;t be stupid.  He&#8217;s a former POTUS and the pro-forma husband of the Secretary of State.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68398</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68398</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I do not believe that the US should barter for the release of two women at the expense of the other 299,999,998 citizens of the US. &lt;/em&gt;

But the government didn&#039;t barter now did they? Clinton was not with the government this time, it was a private matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I do not believe that the US should barter for the release of two women at the expense of the other 299,999,998 citizens of the US. </em></p>
<p>But the government didn&#8217;t barter now did they? Clinton was not with the government this time, it was a private matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronnie LaBaume</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68397</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronnie LaBaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68397</guid>
		<description>I do not believe that the US should barter for the release of two women at the expense of the other 299,999,998 citizens of the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not believe that the US should barter for the release of two women at the expense of the other 299,999,998 citizens of the US.</p>
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		<title>By: usinkorea</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68319</link>
		<dc:creator>usinkorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68319</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t care if a relatively small amount of cash was exchanged.  I am glad the two were released.

Now, I wish it would be quickly forgotten or the focus would just be on the two reporters telling there tale.

But, even before they were out of country, as soon as it was known Clinton was in the North, we starting having the media bringing on talking heads who talked about what &quot;opportunities&quot; this latest news was opening up...

...That should have been easy to predict from near the start of this.  It should have been predictable that Pyongyang was not only going to get some kind of monetary gain from this but it would actually get a PR gain and a positive momentum push on the diplomatic front...

At the start and through most of this, I was too focused on how the US and the media were not reacting to the news of the abduction with any heat or fury.  I didn&#039;t realize that when Kim Jong-Il released the two ---- there were be the usual debate about what kind of &quot;positive sign&quot; it was from Pyongyang and &quot;what it means&quot; concerning the &quot;regime&#039;s willingness&quot; to do whatever positive in terms of nukes or opening up or reform...

But that is how every &quot;gesture&quot; by the North has been treated since the early to mid-1990s......It should have been obvious.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care if a relatively small amount of cash was exchanged.  I am glad the two were released.</p>
<p>Now, I wish it would be quickly forgotten or the focus would just be on the two reporters telling there tale.</p>
<p>But, even before they were out of country, as soon as it was known Clinton was in the North, we starting having the media bringing on talking heads who talked about what &#8220;opportunities&#8221; this latest news was opening up&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;That should have been easy to predict from near the start of this.  It should have been predictable that Pyongyang was not only going to get some kind of monetary gain from this but it would actually get a PR gain and a positive momentum push on the diplomatic front&#8230;</p>
<p>At the start and through most of this, I was too focused on how the US and the media were not reacting to the news of the abduction with any heat or fury.  I didn&#8217;t realize that when Kim Jong-Il released the two &#8212;- there were be the usual debate about what kind of &#8220;positive sign&#8221; it was from Pyongyang and &#8220;what it means&#8221; concerning the &#8220;regime&#8217;s willingness&#8221; to do whatever positive in terms of nukes or opening up or reform&#8230;</p>
<p>But that is how every &#8220;gesture&#8221; by the North has been treated since the early to mid-1990s&#8230;&#8230;It should have been obvious&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: a listener</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68309</link>
		<dc:creator>a listener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68309</guid>
		<description>wow Joshua, the reporter return trip do&#039;s and dont&#039;s thread just disappeared above this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow Joshua, the reporter return trip do&#8217;s and dont&#8217;s thread just disappeared above this thread.</p>
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		<title>By: Richardson</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68308</link>
		<dc:creator>Richardson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68308</guid>
		<description>While there no doubt will be a price to pay, calling it &quot;terrorism&quot; is a stretch.  Blackmail or ransom, yes. Terrorism, no.  Threatening to turn Seoul into a &quot;sea of fire,&quot; however, could be construed as such. 

We&#039;ll see what happens with the next North Korean leader as it&#039;s clear human rights and the nuclear issue is not something any U.S. administration so far has been willing to do what it takes to achieve progress. Probably things won&#039;t change much, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While there no doubt will be a price to pay, calling it &#8220;terrorism&#8221; is a stretch.  Blackmail or ransom, yes. Terrorism, no.  Threatening to turn Seoul into a &#8220;sea of fire,&#8221; however, could be construed as such. </p>
<p>We&#8217;ll see what happens with the next North Korean leader as it&#8217;s clear human rights and the nuclear issue is not something any U.S. administration so far has been willing to do what it takes to achieve progress. Probably things won&#8217;t change much, though.</p>
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		<title>By: nkmatters</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68305</link>
		<dc:creator>nkmatters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68305</guid>
		<description>The comments section in this Bolton op-ed makes me want to switch my party affiliation from the Democrats to the GOP...

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/04/AR2009080401486.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/04/AR2009080401486.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments section in this Bolton op-ed makes me want to switch my party affiliation from the Democrats to the GOP&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/04/AR2009080401486.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/04/AR2009080401486.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: xyzzy</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68304</link>
		<dc:creator>xyzzy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68304</guid>
		<description>The Facebook group is reporting that they&#039;re being pardoned.  Hopefully this signifies a  quick publicity stunt with no diplomatic repercussions, but I doubt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Facebook group is reporting that they&#8217;re being pardoned.  Hopefully this signifies a  quick publicity stunt with no diplomatic repercussions, but I doubt it.</p>
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		<title>By: mikev</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-68303</link>
		<dc:creator>mikev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2009/08/04/the-bag-man-bill-clinton-in-pyongyang/#comment-68303</guid>
		<description>I hope we renege on whatever deal we cut with them as soon as these girls are safely on US soil.  Give NK a taste of their own medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope we renege on whatever deal we cut with them as soon as these girls are safely on US soil.  Give NK a taste of their own medicine.</p>
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