Photos from Saturday’s March and Demonstration for NK Human Rights
I would love to write more, but at least for now, here are some photos from Saturday’s March from near City Hall (actually, just to the right of the Deoksu Palace) to Seoul Station, where we joined a somewhat larger collection of groups assembled to call for freedom for North Koreans and meant to coincide with the 20th anniversary of the opening of the Berlin Wall.
The woman pictured speaking below is a North Korean survivor of sexual trafficking — the Korean-American next to me said her testimony was extremely horrifying.
Also, I chose the exactly right — or wrong, if I wanted to get photos — time to run inside Seoul Station to use the rest room. When I got back I noticed there was something splattered all over — including (minorly) on my backpack. Apparently some man decided to fling kimchi at the speakers and guests.
I put descriptions in the “alt” tag info, so at least in theory you can hover your mouse over each picture for more info (if that fails, you should be able to right-click and select properties to read it). In particular, check out the blurb for the bottom photo!
Update: Using Firefox on a PC anyway, the text for each photo doesn’t appear if you hover your mouse, and it’s annoying to read if you right-click. So I’ve added the text below each photo. Be sure to read the bottom one.
Getting ready for the march next to Deoksu Palace.
Marchers waiting at an intersection.
Crossing a street on the way to Seoul Station.
Marchers have sat down in the front few rows at the demonstration at Seoul Station.
Woman looking at the signs from the Antihuman Crime Investigation Committee, which wants to bring Kim Jong-il before the ICC.
A survivor of human trafficking in China shares her story.
Tim Peters reads a letter about the North Korean human rights crisis to President Obama (8 days before Obama’s trip to China).
The picket above shows an astounding photo, I believe which must have been taken near the DPRK’s office in New York. The woman’s sign says to please save her husband from public execution in NK (or does it say he already was executed?) and the man in the middle is identified as an NK ambassador! I stumbled upon similar photos here several days ago: http://iccnk.kr/xe/878
At least we got to see the jail turn-around time for arrested crazies too — about 2 hours…that’s how long it took the food thrower to come back to get in trouble again…
How is it demographically possible to assemble so many white people and so few Koreans in Seoul? Some unfortunate translation error must have convinced these people that they’re waiting for the bus that will take them to a tractor pull. I am really tired of South Korea’s all-consuming obsession with emotionally expedient historical grievances. Frankly, Dan, I don’t know you you manage to sustain your determination.
Still, it’s a good crowd, all in all. And good posters. Love the red ink.
The producer or director or whatever for Yoduk Story mentioned in his speech that he has been trying to get George Clooney, Spielberg, and some other big Hollywood people to join in the effort like they do for Darfur and Tibet. Later it dawned on me, “Why not Korean pop culture figures as well? Where are the Korean celebrities on NK?”
Also, there was not a single person from KBS, MBC, or SBS there to take video and interviews.
A couple of weeks ago at one of the small weekly protests, the a couple of Korean Secret Service guy were there because the presidential motorcade was to go by, and a couple of times, he turned signs with images of NK-sufferers and human rights slogans around facing away from the street because he didn’t want Pres. Lee to see them. (And the protest had no idea ahead of time the president would be driving by – it was just chance). He said you couldn’t really know NK without having been there.
Don’t give up – the USA is still the world’s best democracy for others to emulate – historically, Korea hasn’t had the opportunity to cultivate good leadership – thanks, DanB -wish I were there…
Sounds like our US special envoy has it right…finally! http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk00100&num=5628
Joshua wrote:
My apartment is in that part of town, so I would get a fairly comprehensive look at the various protests that occur on a regular basis in the downtown area from Seoul Station to City Hall and Kwanghwamun. While the Mad Cow stuff and the labor union stuff brought/brings in huge crowds (the chinboistas are great organizers), the Korean-looking faces in this crowd alone outnumber most protests I would walk by on any given occasion.
Still, there needs to be a lot more stuff going on, but I think NK human rights as an issue suffers from a few things, not least of which is that it comes across as a newly discovered hot-button issue by a group of hypocrites whose side didn’t seem to care much for human rights in the past. I’m certainly not saying that’s justified, but that’s partly what we’re up against. I’m going to write a post on this later, but I think two things that are needed are (a) moderate, non-ideological groups taking up the cause, or even left-of-center groups doing so, and (b) something tangible to rally around, like sustained and well-publicized protests against the Chinese embassy directly for its role.
I don’t understand some things. Why did that man throw food and smear the belongings of the protest group members? Clearly, he is a cretin. My question is, is he, as he seems to be, a cretin with a political motive for his actions? And what kind of motives could anti-anti-DPRK-protesters possibly have? Is he saying that the DPRK is a good government and that people should not be protesting good governments? Or is he saying that the DPRK is a vile government, but that the protesters are making it more difficult to negotiate with them and that the protesters should be stopped as a practical matter? Or is he merely a nationalist xenophobe, who prioritizes showing contempt for the gathering of foreigners over increasing pressure on the DPRK over human rights issues?
And what does “minorly” mean? Did he intend to write, “minority?” If he did, what could that mean? Does he mean that foreigners are minorities in Korea and that their belongs should be smeared with food? Or does he mean that DPRK protesters are in the minority in the ROK and that they should be treated with contempt?
Goodness. If he had no political motives and he just wanted to act like a moron, it is shameful that, as a South Korean, he should have tried to cause trouble for this particular group.
🙁
I think NK human rights as an issue suffers from a few things, not least of which is that it comes across as a newly discovered hot-button issue by a group of hypocrites whose side didn’t seem to care much for human rights in the past.
I’m looking forward to Joshua’s response. In the meantime, perhaps you could elaborate, Kushibo, on who exactly – people, organizations – Koreans think these “hypocrites” are.
He was a loon. By which I mean certifiable crazy homeless guy…
I personally don’t like Seoul Station or any of the major transportation hubs in Korea. Like in other major world cities, they attract homeless nuts and drunks and being a foreigner in Korea makes you stand out like a giant purple elephant. Most of the minor incidents I’ve had in Korea have involved public transportation and the drunks or nuts.
Oh — by minorly, he means his bag just got a little food on it. The North Korean organizer of the event got the brunt of the splattering. It had nothing to do with being foreigners or whatnot. And any speculation on motives is, I think, wasted energy, because the guy was clearly mentally ill and thus irrational…
I’ve only managed to ask a small number of Koreans this question so far, but the answer I’m getting as to why more South Koreans don’t participate in events like this is — they don’t really know about the situation in NK.
I’m finding that hard to fathom, but I can’t dismiss it either.
When I first came to Korea, and some topic about negative issues in American society came up, and I couldn’t find a direct parallel in Korean society, I’d ask a simple question like “What issue does Korean society have?”
A common answer was “Koreans lie too much.” Having been well versed in multiculturalism in college, I tried to reason around that statement — like saying maybe it has something to do with saving face and so on. But, eventually, it dawned on me that they meant exactly what they said — Koreans lie too much (to people who aren’t in their close “circle”).
Maybe Koreans under 40 or so really don’t know that much about the full extent of human rights abuses in NK…..?
Kim Dae Jung came to power in 1998. That is 11 years. The Korea teachers union, long before it became semi-official, has held sway among those teaching Korea’s youth….Maybe since the end of the 1980s (at least) and the end of the authoritarian, anti-NK administrations, South Korean education has dropped the negative portrayals of North Korea to the point Korean adults today are really not that far from non-Koreans in the world about being in the dark about what goes on in North Korea…?…
Sonagi, I’m referring to South Korea’s right, as seen by much of South Korea’s left in general and at least some of its moderates. Their view rests on a foundation that, just as we might say the GOP is the Party of Lincoln or the Party of Reagan and the Dems are the Party of Kennedy and FDR, South Korea’s conservatives are the descendants of Roh Taewoo, Chun Doohwan, Park Chunghee, and Rhee Syngman, heads of administrations that — as the historical narrative today highlights — weren’t too keen on human rights down in the South.
It’s off-putting to some moderates I’ve talked with to witness this newfound religion of the right. It evokes the kind of skepticism one might find for, say, Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus. It’s bolstered by things like the embrace of one of the architects of North Korea’s death machine, Hwang Jang-yop, who makes me cringe when he’s appears at a North Korean human rights conference.
I think it’s clear, however, when I say that this is “what we’re up against,” that the chinboista-influenced view is in no way my view. Joshua is right that I’m “channeling Korean lefties” (and some moderates), but it is based on numerous conversations about these issues throughout this decade.
usinkorea wrote:
I just lost a fairly lengthy comment I’d made in response to this when Safari crashed (Macs are usually, but not always, paragons of stability), so I’ll just put it in a nutshell here.
From conversations I’ve had with skeptics — including those who don’t follow the chinboista line — I think one problem is the perception that there is a lack of reliable information.
Basically, this is decades of over-the-top propaganda, depicting North Koreans in children’s books as horned people or wolves, etc., coming home to roost. The right (or those perceived to be on the right) talking about all these abuses on the scale of a Holocaust-level genocide seems to some to be merely the latest incarnation of 늑대 빨갱ì´.
And again, I’m not saying that is my view. Obviously North Korean human rights is an issue of great concern to me. I’m just trying to lay out what I think is part of the problem so that can be addressed. I don’t think it’s of any particular usefulness to summarily dismiss the South Koreans as hypocritically not caring at all (something I’ve heard said several times, but not necessarily the judgement of anyone here), in part because I don’t think that goes to the heart of the problem at all.
I’ve mentioned “threat fatigue” regarding common South Korean attitudes toward North Korea, and “human rights fatigue” is a concomitant with that. What is needed, in addition to voices clearly not on the right of the ROK political spectrum being brought into the fold, is for something tangible to be presented. Above I mentioned sustained protests at the Chinese embassy, over issues such as forced repatriation of North Korean refugees. I don’t believe this is being done at all (is it?). Especially with the outrageous display of Chinese hubris in April 2008, many people are beginning to rethink Chinese attitudes toward South Korea, generally unfavorably.
Has the Korean right really only recently taken up the cause of human rights in North Korea? Could you give examples of politicians and their public statements or positions? My perception that human rights in North Korea is finally back on the table for public discussion after ten years of overt and covert censorship in the name of the Sunshine Policy. I noticed the change in coverage of North Korean human rights by Jojongdong soon after Lee took office.
Jojongdong = Jojoongdong
How recent do you mean by “recently”? The conversion on the road for South Korea’s conservatives came sometime between the Kim Youngsam administration and the end of the Kim Daejung administration, perhaps with DJ’s visit to Pyongyang as rallying point. I’m not using the beginning of the Lee administration as a starting point, and my reference to an event in 2005 would make that clear.
At any rate, Joshua said he’s going to fish out a comment from the spam filter, so I’d rather forego response until that’s up, because my main point is how to get more people involved in this issue. You seem to be taking issue not just with my theory of why some are skeptical about this issue, but also with how justified or unjustified that skepticism is.
In fact, it seems you’re ascribing to me the viewpoint that I have described among the skeptics. If that’s what you’re doing, then you are missing my point and you are grossly misjudging me, and frankly I resent that. I’ve actively participated in North Korean human rights conferences (and would like to do so here in Hawaii for the duration that I’m here).
If I’ve inaccurately inferred the underlying tone of your questions, then I apologize.
Anyway…
I think the S. Korean right’s view of the North isn’t new found. I think you have room to attack their sincerity based on the abuse of rights on their own people in previous administrations, but I don’t think you have room to say that their attacks on the North Korean government are a fresh fad.
If the focus is on the South Korean conservative government-types’ view of the North, the conversation has jumped a good distance from where it began, because the South Korean gov. conservatives had no part in this recent event — nor did many South Koreans of any political stripe. In fact, I’d like to know how many of the Koreans who were there were North Koreans who managed to make it to the South. If we took their numbers out of the crowd, you’d have even fewer South Koreans there…
I just caught the response to my comment. I missed it on first read…
I agree with Kushibo that the level of rhetoric against the North by previous South Korean authoritarian rulers is one reason why South Korean adults lack proper concern about the North. My gut feeling is that the shift in the educational system and news media and pop culture is much more of a root cause than that, however. For whatever reasons, Korean society embraced the Sunshine Policy and even today want to keep that now lukewarm good feeling alive. I’m sure fatigue in facing a seemingly hopeless situation plays a part too…
But I do wonder how much simple ignorance of the reality is at play….
I can’t even give a rough estimate right now based on what I’ve heard since returning to South Korea. It is too hard for me to imagine how they couldn’t know better than others in the world, but I’m not so sure that isn’t what is actually happening…
I guess I need some reliable surveys (with significant pool sizes) on this issue….
And I wish my Korean were close to good enough to check out South Korean high school and middle school textbooks and nightly news casts.
“You seem to be taking issue not just with my theory of why some are skeptical about this issue, but also with how justified or unjustified that skepticism is.
In fact, it seems you’re ascribing to me the viewpoint that I have described among the skeptics.”
By not evaluating the views of the skeptics you are representing, you appeared not to disagree. Your own interest in North Korean human rights has no bearing on whether or not you think Korean conservatives are fair-weather friends of North Korean human rights advocates.
Sonagi wrote:
I don’t recall if this message appeared before or after you wrote that, but this…
… or later …
…should have made it clear that this is in no way my view.
I did not evaluate the view I was describing because it would be a lengthy post, not a mere comment. I had meant to write somewhere that I was preparing some thoughts for such a post later on.
usinkorea wrote:
Even if I think it’s a newfound (as in this decade) conversion, I wouldn’t go so far as to describe it as a fad. I think the concern for North Korean human rights is genuine, especially at the rank-and-file level, and it only grows more so as numbers start to grow.
And certainly I would agree that the formerly outlawed Korean Teachers Union, a major chinboista player has successfully undermined any attempts to keep South Korea’s youth from paying attention to the issue.
But I don’t think that explains all of it, and certainly not the inaction or disinterest from the middle. I do think the points I made are valid explanations for that.
Over on The Marmot’s Hole, Sonagi wrote:
Since I don’t post at TMH, I hope you nobody minds if I address this here. Sonagi, I don’t think I agree with you about conservative newspapers like the Chosun Ilbo ignoring news related to human rights abuses related to North Korea, or China. Yonhap, maybe, which would in turn affect what kind of information filters down to other papers (including the CSI), but I don’t think it’s accurate to say that it was ten years in the wilderness for the issue.
Could you give some examples, USinKorea, of North Korea human rights stories covered in the Chosun Ilbo or other mainstream papers during the previous two administrations? I wouldn’t say that the issue got no coverage at all, but I did notice the appearance of several related stories soon after Lee Myung-bak took office.
@Kushibo:
I absolutely believe you that there are Koreans who think like what you’ve described. Tell me if I’m wrong, but these Koreans a) don’t like conservatives anyway; and b) liked the Sunshine Policy. Their skepticism is consistent with their political leanings.
Sonagi wrote:
If I had to put my finger on a characterization, I would say they are skeptical of the conservatives, and their support of Sunshine Policy would be that it was worth a try, though they are now skeptical of that as well. Moreover, they don’t like the left any more than they like the right, and they are probably even more distrusting of the left than the right. These are people who, by and large, voted for Lee.
My point is that these are not leftist voters by any means. They are generally moderates, or perhaps somewhat right of center. I believe they could be made interested in this as an issue, through some of the methods I described earlier, and that is one way in which they are in stark contrast with the chinboista true believers.
Don’t have time to google and it wouldn’t do much anyway. Getting this far into the Lee presidency, I can’t say I see a big overall difference in what South Korean society is producing concerning NKHR. Maybe it is roughly similar to US foreign policy changes since Obama took office — not much of an actual change despite the initial rhetorical flurry…