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	<title>Comments on: North Korea Murders Five Refugees Inside Chinese Territory</title>
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		<title>By: Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop—Recent Activity on the Sino-DPRK border &#171; SINO-NK</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-935148</link>
		<dc:creator>Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop—Recent Activity on the Sino-DPRK border &#171; SINO-NK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/#comment-935148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] was discussed in-depth nearly precisely a year ago on One Free Korea, the North Korean border with China tends to be a [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was discussed in-depth nearly precisely a year ago on One Free Korea, the North Korean border with China tends to be a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: babamoto</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-79678</link>
		<dc:creator>babamoto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 00:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Spelunker!!!
Whaddup, maaan?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spelunker!!!<br />
Whaddup, maaan?</p>
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		<title>By: kushibo</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-79500</link>
		<dc:creator>kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2011 10:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know whether I believe that or not, but I will say that it&#039;s not particularly relevant: The North Korean guards were in hot pursuit of these three or four people who crossed into their territory and they chased them into DPRK-friendly territory. Now what would make a difference in my reaction would be if they had never crossed into the DPRK and the North Koreans crossed the river to get them. You may recall that, initially at least, that&#039;s what many believed had happened, but I suspected otherwise. Again, I go with my gut, and my gut has served me well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know whether I believe that or not, but I will say that it&#8217;s not particularly relevant: The North Korean guards were in hot pursuit of these three or four people who crossed into their territory and they chased them into DPRK-friendly territory. Now what would make a difference in my reaction would be if they had never crossed into the DPRK and the North Koreans crossed the river to get them. You may recall that, initially at least, that&#8217;s what many believed had happened, but I suspected otherwise. Again, I go with my gut, and my gut has served me well.</p>
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		<title>By: Glans</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-79498</link>
		<dc:creator>Glans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2011 10:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/#comment-79498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, kushibo.  Your review of Somewhere Inside, even if it&#039;s only nutshell-sized, is the first I&#039;ve seen by anyone who knows or cares about Korea.  Do you now believe that the Nork border guards chased Euna Lee and Laura Ling across the Tumen, arrested them on the Chinese side, and dragged them back to North Korea?

Bless your mom!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, kushibo.  Your review of Somewhere Inside, even if it&#8217;s only nutshell-sized, is the first I&#8217;ve seen by anyone who knows or cares about Korea.  Do you now believe that the Nork border guards chased Euna Lee and Laura Ling across the Tumen, arrested them on the Chinese side, and dragged them back to North Korea?</p>
<p>Bless your mom!</p>
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		<title>By: kushibo</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-79495</link>
		<dc:creator>kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/#comment-79495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glans, I think you have me confused with someone who earns a living by blogging. These are my priorities, in order: (1) family matters, (2) school matters, (3) work matters, (4) fun or important stuff having nothing to do with family or school or work, (5) day-to-day blogging like the daily news roundup, (6) special topics to blog about, (7) book reviews. 

Life gets in the way of blogging. Fall semester really kicked my derriere because of major tasks falling under (1) and (2), with the constant hum of (3). During vacation, I had no vacation, as I was playing catch-up once the semester finally ended (after Christmas, since I had to get extensions). Then, since New Years, my uncle almost died, at a time when I&#039;ve already been helping my aunt with some major legal matters, just when two major work projects came at the start of the new semester last week. The Lings&#039; book, which I have been steadily making my way through, with notes for an upcoming &quot;review,&quot; will have to wait. I am considering buying Euna Lee&#039;s book for the Kindle I just purchased for myself, but with what precious little time I find myself having for &quot;pleasure reading,&quot; I&#039;d prefer to read Barbara Demick&#039;s book. 

But if you like, here&#039;s my review in a nutshell so far: I still don&#039;t see anything that redeems Ms Ling or Ms Lee vis-Ã -vis my criticisms over how and why they got captured, but I do feel sympathy for what they apparently went through, and I do find their book an interesting read for what it says about what people like them and presumably Mr Robert Park or Mr Aijalon Mahli Gomes go through. Also, my mother, who read my copy of the book before I did, says I shouldn&#039;t pick on Lisa Ling or her sister in public.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glans, I think you have me confused with someone who earns a living by blogging. These are my priorities, in order: (1) family matters, (2) school matters, (3) work matters, (4) fun or important stuff having nothing to do with family or school or work, (5) day-to-day blogging like the daily news roundup, (6) special topics to blog about, (7) book reviews. </p>
<p>Life gets in the way of blogging. Fall semester really kicked my derriere because of major tasks falling under (1) and (2), with the constant hum of (3). During vacation, I had no vacation, as I was playing catch-up once the semester finally ended (after Christmas, since I had to get extensions). Then, since New Years, my uncle almost died, at a time when I&#8217;ve already been helping my aunt with some major legal matters, just when two major work projects came at the start of the new semester last week. The Lings&#8217; book, which I have been steadily making my way through, with notes for an upcoming &#8220;review,&#8221; will have to wait. I am considering buying Euna Lee&#8217;s book for the Kindle I just purchased for myself, but with what precious little time I find myself having for &#8220;pleasure reading,&#8221; I&#8217;d prefer to read Barbara Demick&#8217;s book. </p>
<p>But if you like, here&#8217;s my review in a nutshell so far: I still don&#8217;t see anything that redeems Ms Ling or Ms Lee vis-Ã -vis my criticisms over how and why they got captured, but I do feel sympathy for what they apparently went through, and I do find their book an interesting read for what it says about what people like them and presumably Mr Robert Park or Mr Aijalon Mahli Gomes go through. Also, my mother, who read my copy of the book before I did, says I shouldn&#8217;t pick on Lisa Ling or her sister in public.</p>
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		<title>By: Glans</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-79494</link>
		<dc:creator>Glans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2011 08:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/#comment-79494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Spelunker loves to type certain names, but I&#039;m still hoping for his evaluation of their books;  I&#039;ve given up on Kushibo.  As to the Chinese units that crossed the Tumen, I guess I&#039;ll just wait for further reports.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spelunker loves to type certain names, but I&#8217;m still hoping for his evaluation of their books;  I&#8217;ve given up on Kushibo.  As to the Chinese units that crossed the Tumen, I guess I&#8217;ll just wait for further reports.</p>
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		<title>By: Spelunker</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-79491</link>
		<dc:creator>Spelunker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2011 05:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/#comment-79491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apologies to Adam and others who may have tried to follow the Chinese language link; I&#039;ve been away for a while and had not created any hyperlinks lately.   Here it is again:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://realtime.zaobao.com/2011/01/110115_15.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Zaobao.com&lt;/a&gt;

Apology to Glans for any confusion about the previous post.  The bit about North Korea using Chinese jeeps to round up refugees was speculation on the part of the reporter, not a fact.

No apology to China&#039;s Foreign Ministry, who held yet another presumptuous press conference to call the reported sighting of Chinese military movements across the border &quot;sheer fabrication&quot; and asserted that Beijing will not send a &#039;&#039;single soldier&#039;&#039; without the approval of the United Nations.
(No word about North Korea sending a single soldier or two to pursue refugees on China&#039;s shore of the Tumen River.)

Now let me tell y&#039;all something about &quot;sheer fabrication&quot;: as a student at a big college I once juggled 3 girlfriends at the same time.  I did an awful lot of &quot;sheer fabrication&quot; about my whereabouts on any given evening....  Here is the point I&#039;m making:  if the original reporter fabricated the location of Chinese tanks crossing the Tumen River as being Sanhe (ä¸‰åˆæ¸¡) instead of Dandong or the town of Tumen, then that&#039;s some pretty dadgum awesome fabricating!   How often do we see the puny port of Sanhe mentioned in the news as a crossing point between China and North Korea?  How many people even know where Sanhe is?
Answer: it&#039;s about 90 minutes by car from Tumen City and 60 kilometers south of Yueqing, the remote village where Laura Ling, Euna Lee, and Mitch Koss crossed the Tumen for their Current TV caper. (I just love typing those names again!)  When you look at a map of this general area, the proximity to road transport through North Korea toward the &quot;Sea of Japan&quot; port where China maintains an invested interest is overwhelmingly obvious.
A reporter who could fabricate a story about military movements in the middle of nowhere during the middle of the night deserves some kind of prize.  It&#039;s just too good to not be true!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies to Adam and others who may have tried to follow the Chinese language link; I&#8217;ve been away for a while and had not created any hyperlinks lately.   Here it is again:</p>
<p><a href="http://realtime.zaobao.com/2011/01/110115_15.shtml" rel="nofollow">Zaobao.com</a></p>
<p>Apology to Glans for any confusion about the previous post.  The bit about North Korea using Chinese jeeps to round up refugees was speculation on the part of the reporter, not a fact.</p>
<p>No apology to China&#8217;s Foreign Ministry, who held yet another presumptuous press conference to call the reported sighting of Chinese military movements across the border &#8220;sheer fabrication&#8221; and asserted that Beijing will not send a &#8221;single soldier&#8221; without the approval of the United Nations.<br />
(No word about North Korea sending a single soldier or two to pursue refugees on China&#8217;s shore of the Tumen River.)</p>
<p>Now let me tell y&#8217;all something about &#8220;sheer fabrication&#8221;: as a student at a big college I once juggled 3 girlfriends at the same time.  I did an awful lot of &#8220;sheer fabrication&#8221; about my whereabouts on any given evening&#8230;.  Here is the point I&#8217;m making:  if the original reporter fabricated the location of Chinese tanks crossing the Tumen River as being Sanhe (ä¸‰åˆæ¸¡) instead of Dandong or the town of Tumen, then that&#8217;s some pretty dadgum awesome fabricating!   How often do we see the puny port of Sanhe mentioned in the news as a crossing point between China and North Korea?  How many people even know where Sanhe is?<br />
Answer: it&#8217;s about 90 minutes by car from Tumen City and 60 kilometers south of Yueqing, the remote village where Laura Ling, Euna Lee, and Mitch Koss crossed the Tumen for their Current TV caper. (I just love typing those names again!)  When you look at a map of this general area, the proximity to road transport through North Korea toward the &#8220;Sea of Japan&#8221; port where China maintains an invested interest is overwhelmingly obvious.<br />
A reporter who could fabricate a story about military movements in the middle of nowhere during the middle of the night deserves some kind of prize.  It&#8217;s just too good to not be true!</p>
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		<title>By: kushibo</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-79490</link>
		<dc:creator>kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2011 03:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/#comment-79490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know, Adam. That &lt;em&gt;Global Times&lt;/em&gt; piece sounds a bit like a &quot;These are not the droids you&#039;re looking for&quot; kinda story.

I go with my gut, and my gut has served me well. My gut tells me not to trust official Chinese statements (or news outlets) on this matter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, Adam. That <em>Global Times</em> piece sounds a bit like a &#8220;These are not the droids you&#8217;re looking for&#8221; kinda story.</p>
<p>I go with my gut, and my gut has served me well. My gut tells me not to trust official Chinese statements (or news outlets) on this matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Cathcart</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-79480</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Cathcart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/#comment-79480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quite a lot to untangle on Rason.  (@Spelunker, your Singapore/Zaobao link is busted.) 

&lt;strong&gt;Chinese links&lt;/strong&gt;
Chinese Foreign Ministry issues an almost comically &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/chn/gxh/tyb/fyrbt/t787190.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;terse denial of Chinese troops in Rasona longer take on the Chosun Ilbo story&lt;/a&gt;, and the Chosun Ilbo text itself, is all over the Chinese blogs (including some sponsored by important official sites).  

In the meantime, Huanqiu Shibao reports on North Korea&#039;s revised drive to 2020 with &lt;a href=&quot;http://finance.huanqiu.com/roll/2011-01/1432989.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a subtle smash that the DPRK can no longer have a &quot;slogan-based economy&quot;&lt;/a&gt;; a Huanqiu-sponsored blog headlined &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.huanqiu.com/?uid-222428-action-viewspace-itemid-1930854&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;North Korea: Use More Chinese Cell Phones to Open Faster&lt;/a&gt;&quot; is actually a short report from Malaysia on Kim Jong Un&#039;s &quot;Reign of Terror.&quot;  There is &lt;a href=&quot;http://club.china.com/data/thread/12171906/2721/93/67/3_1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a rather thoughtful meditation at the end on this Chinese military blog&lt;/a&gt; about the veracity of the present allegations of Chinese troops in Rason, in the light of apparently retracted &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.51junshi.com/Article/a6/20101226103110.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;allegations &lt;/a&gt;on the Phoenix site dating from late October, supposedly drawn from US satellite images, that 15,000 Chinese soldiers had moved into the Pyongyang area.     

&lt;strong&gt;English links&lt;/strong&gt;
Global Times denies the &quot;Chinese Troops in Rason&quot; story in more depth &lt;a href=&quot;http://china.globaltimes.cn/diplomacy/2011-01/613194.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, leaving open the possibility that a vague team of &quot;Chinese negotiators&quot; went to Rason.  

In other news you may not have heard, on December 23, the Huanqiu Shibao carried a prominent full back-page, first-hand account of a visit of a Chinese reporter to Rason, the area in question.  (The lengthy dispatch is translated/summarized &lt;a href=&quot;http://adamcathcart.wordpress.com/2010/12/24/chinese-reportage-from-rajin-north-korea/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.)  Among the more interesting disclosures and interpretations in the Huanqiu article is reporter Cheng Gang&#039;s assessment of:

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;http://adamcathcart.wordpress.com/2010/12/24/chinese-reportage-from-rajin-north-korea/&quot;&gt;...the deepest change of all: soldiers and military vehicles, unlike in other North Korean cities, are seldom seen, particularly soldiers carrying guns....According to my understanding, Rajin has gotten a large number of soldiers and other special officers [ç‰¹åˆ«éƒ¨é—¨] to adjust and go back to their cities, so that a more unified foreign investment can be made.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

We will see how this all plays out.  

And also, Joshua, thank you for the instructive follow up on the rifles/border shooting issue, it is appreciated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite a lot to untangle on Rason.  (@Spelunker, your Singapore/Zaobao link is busted.) </p>
<p><strong>Chinese links</strong><br />
Chinese Foreign Ministry issues an almost comically <a href="http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/chn/gxh/tyb/fyrbt/t787190.htm" rel="nofollow">terse denial of Chinese troops in Rasona longer take on the Chosun Ilbo story</a>, and the Chosun Ilbo text itself, is all over the Chinese blogs (including some sponsored by important official sites).  </p>
<p>In the meantime, Huanqiu Shibao reports on North Korea&#8217;s revised drive to 2020 with <a href="http://finance.huanqiu.com/roll/2011-01/1432989.html" rel="nofollow">a subtle smash that the DPRK can no longer have a &#8220;slogan-based economy&#8221;</a>; a Huanqiu-sponsored blog headlined &#8220;<a href="http://blog.huanqiu.com/?uid-222428-action-viewspace-itemid-1930854" rel="nofollow">North Korea: Use More Chinese Cell Phones to Open Faster</a>&#8221; is actually a short report from Malaysia on Kim Jong Un&#8217;s &#8220;Reign of Terror.&#8221;  There is <a href="http://club.china.com/data/thread/12171906/2721/93/67/3_1.html" rel="nofollow">a rather thoughtful meditation at the end on this Chinese military blog</a> about the veracity of the present allegations of Chinese troops in Rason, in the light of apparently retracted <a href="http://www.51junshi.com/Article/a6/20101226103110.html" rel="nofollow">allegations </a>on the Phoenix site dating from late October, supposedly drawn from US satellite images, that 15,000 Chinese soldiers had moved into the Pyongyang area.     </p>
<p><strong>English links</strong><br />
Global Times denies the &#8220;Chinese Troops in Rason&#8221; story in more depth <a href="http://china.globaltimes.cn/diplomacy/2011-01/613194.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, leaving open the possibility that a vague team of &#8220;Chinese negotiators&#8221; went to Rason.  </p>
<p>In other news you may not have heard, on December 23, the Huanqiu Shibao carried a prominent full back-page, first-hand account of a visit of a Chinese reporter to Rason, the area in question.  (The lengthy dispatch is translated/summarized <a href="http://adamcathcart.wordpress.com/2010/12/24/chinese-reportage-from-rajin-north-korea/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.)  Among the more interesting disclosures and interpretations in the Huanqiu article is reporter Cheng Gang&#8217;s assessment of:</p>
<blockquote cite="http://adamcathcart.wordpress.com/2010/12/24/chinese-reportage-from-rajin-north-korea/"><p>&#8230;the deepest change of all: soldiers and military vehicles, unlike in other North Korean cities, are seldom seen, particularly soldiers carrying guns&#8230;.According to my understanding, Rajin has gotten a large number of soldiers and other special officers [ç‰¹åˆ«éƒ¨é—¨] to adjust and go back to their cities, so that a more unified foreign investment can be made.</p></blockquote>
<p>We will see how this all plays out.  </p>
<p>And also, Joshua, thank you for the instructive follow up on the rifles/border shooting issue, it is appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: kushibo</title>
		<link>http://freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/comment-page-1/#comment-79474</link>
		<dc:creator>kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freekorea.us/2011/01/10/north-korea-murders-five-refugees-inside-chinese-territory-2/#comment-79474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glans wrote:&lt;blockquote&gt;Spelunker, I donâ€™t get it. Did Chinese forces enter North Korea to suppress public disturbances? Or were they delivering armored vehicles with which North Korean forces would suppress public disrurbances?&lt;/blockquote&gt;In light of what the new development that China is sending its own troops to Rajin to protect its port facilities, my &lt;em&gt;speculation&lt;/em&gt; (and like any honest Pyongyang watcher should at this stage, I point out that my speculation is merely that, so no one will mistake it as fact or heavily supported conjecture) is that it is for Chinese forces to do whatever they need to do â€”Â including suppressing North Korean forces or the public â€”Â around Rajin/Najin/RaÅn/NasÅn.&lt;blockquote&gt;In either case, if North Korean freedom fighters request support, we might think about giving them the means to destroy armored vehicles.&lt;/blockquote&gt;You make a very good point there, Glans, and I hope people are paying attention to it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glans wrote:<br />
<blockquote>Spelunker, I donâ€™t get it. Did Chinese forces enter North Korea to suppress public disturbances? Or were they delivering armored vehicles with which North Korean forces would suppress public disrurbances?</p></blockquote>
<p>In light of what the new development that China is sending its own troops to Rajin to protect its port facilities, my <em>speculation</em> (and like any honest Pyongyang watcher should at this stage, I point out that my speculation is merely that, so no one will mistake it as fact or heavily supported conjecture) is that it is for Chinese forces to do whatever they need to do â€”Â including suppressing North Korean forces or the public â€”Â around Rajin/Najin/RaÅn/NasÅn.<br />
<blockquote>In either case, if North Korean freedom fighters request support, we might think about giving them the means to destroy armored vehicles.</p></blockquote>
<p>You make a very good point there, Glans, and I hope people are paying attention to it.</p>
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