‘No Evidence’ Backs FLG Sujiatan Accusations
When shocking reports first emerged that China was mass-harvesting the organs of thousands Falun Gong members, the U.S. government called on China to allow international inspection of the facility in question. China wisely decided to do just that — though not quite immediately — and embassy staffers who visited the location have found the evidence for the reports lacking.
Officers and staff from our embassy in Beijing and consulate in Shenyang have visited the area and the specific site mentioned in these reports on two separate occasions,” McCormack said.
“In these visits the officers were allowed to tour the entire facility and grounds and found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital.”
The timing, coinciding with Hu Jintao’s visit certainly played a role. First, Falun Gong had a motive to make the charge at this time. Second, China urgently needed to clear the air before Bush and Hu met. Third — and this is the part that gives some pause — the embassy had a very powerful motive to find the evidence lacking. That said, the evidence at this point doesn’t support the specific charges at Sujiatan. It’s a hit for the credibility of the Epoch Times, which was trying to fill a badly needed role as an independent newspaper that feels free to challenge the Chinese government.
And of course, plenty of credible evidence supports accusations of Chinese persecution of the Falun Gong, and credible evidence also supports accusations that the Chinese government harvests executed prisoners’ organs.
Bobby,
The links you gave do not justify the statement you made, “The truth is already out.” The link you gave merely supports inconclusiveness. In fact we can conclude that the accusation is credible enough for the US State Department to raise the issue with China and even address the concern in its human right report, and make an investigation. China is not a transparent government where evidence can be easily obtained.
Also, no one wants to piss off the most coveted market in the world, especially when people still want to give China a chance to democratize, as economic change gives impetus to political change. This is the theory and hope.
I would not be a surprised if the FLG is using sensationalism to draw attention to their cause, but can you seriously blame them? Everyone knows about China’s dirty war on the FLG, and the FLG is just doing what it can to fight back. The villain in that dispute is INDISPUTIBLY China. That doesn’t mean FLG has a license to say anything it wants, but they don’t have to be perfect either. Maybe they made a mistake with the Auschwitz comparison, but I wouldn’t say it was an unforgivable mistake that should be condemned and destroy all their credibility, as you seem to be angling for. Bobby, with all that they have been through, why are you vilifying them???
On the other side, I would think that with the proliferation of multi-media recording devices, that evidence could be easily obtained, but I wouldn’t take that for granted. Its well within China’s ability to hide something like this because the government can do whatever it wants and cover up almost anything it wants. There are no surprise inspections. Any evidence would almost certainly have to come from a whistleblower type source.
I’ll say that the verdict is still out and it was a high risk move by the FLG to use the Auschwitz comparison, if that is deemed blatantly false, and they will certainly lose credibility if that is concluded.
FLG is not a political group, but they certainly have applied themselves politically, which isn’t their fault. FLG didn’t have much choice.
Kevin, “sensationalism” is exactely what Epoch Times NY’s “Auschwitz/Never Again” indictment that was heavily promoted in March, in anticipation of Chinese leader’s stateside visit.
I’m sure it is emotionally satisfying for you to reply “so what”. But the price of “feel good” is people who reads Epoch’s cooked up story will never understand what really happened in China with FLG. They’ve done themselve a disservice IMHO.
If we in the west can not be precise with the facts, only resort to nefarious indictment, why should the Chinese take what we say seriousely?
Take Epoch’s claim “Auschwitz” can vanish into thin air undetected. Two US government investigation both started early march, which means 10,000 people and huge organ harvesting facility facility, had at most 5 days to disappear undetected.
That is science fiction.
The clinic Epoch accused was open to public in previous years, I’ve cited Malaysian government’s drug research article that showed Malay officials have visited the clinic in previous years.
Does that sound like a death camp? Open to public, advertising for foreign investment?
Jana, common sense suggests “innocent until proven guilty”.
And FLG’s “Auschwitz/Never Again” claim is unproven, even according to your own words.
Bobby,
actually my response is not emotionally satisfying because I don’t have as much emotionally invested in these blogs as you obviously do. But I will give you your “so what?” response, Bobby.
Journalists engaging in sensationalism??? Imagine that…
You are creating a bit of sensationalism yourself going after the FLG. Of all the things that I would go on a crusade about, the FLG wouldn’t even be in the rhelm of unjustices or atrocities worthy of such a misguided cause as yours, but if that’s what gives your life meaning, then go for it, Bobby. You’re not going to get much support or sense of community.
Do you realize how many people read your stuff and think… “there’s that anti-FLG zealot again…”
I’ll say what I said before… Investigations were inconclusive.
The accusation IS credible enough for the State Dept to take seriously and put in it’s annual human rights report.
Kev, can you cite thre State Dept annual report that talks about “Auschwitz”, “vivisection”, “live organ harvesting”?
Dear Bobby.
The report we have been waiting for is now released
CIPFG Media Advisory July 7, 2006
Attention: News Editor
CIPFG Welcomes the Release of Landmark Independent Investigation Report
REPORT INTO ALLEGATIONS OF ORGAN HARVESTING OF
FALUN GONG PRACTITIONERS IN CHINA
by David Matas (former Canadian Member of Parliament)
and David Kilgour (Renowned Human Rights Lawyer)
July 6, 2006
Read the report:
http://investigation.redirectme.net/
“Based on what we now know, we have come to the regrettable conclusion that the allegations are true. We believe that there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners.†[Report excerpt]
The report was prepared voluntarily by former Canadian Member of Parliament David Kilgour, (former director of Asia and Pacific division of Canadian Foreign Affairs Ministry) and renowned Canadian human rights lawyer David Matas upon request by the CIPFG (Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong in China). After two months of investigation, the report was released to the Canadian government on Thursday July 6, along with recommendations for diplomatic pressure and sanctions on China.
Mr. Matas called the report’s revelations “a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet…a new form of evil,” and something very hard to believe, like the Holocaust.
This is the first comprehensive independent investigation on the organ harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners in China. It was reported in almost all Canadian media’s headline yesterday.
The CIPFG was established in April this year after 2 witnesses came forward to testify about organ harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners in China. CIPFG has a growing membership of political, medical, legal and religious representatives around the world.
Bobby please hear this with your heart
“I believe the Ccp will come to get you too …the Jewish race will be next, as all democratic countries will be next on the list too if the CCP isn’t exposed for its crimes against all of humanity and held accountable.”
That doesn’t single you out alone. The Ccp has an agenda just like hitler did..
The Ccp’s agenda is to rule the world with communism. They may praise you now and offer you incentives to keep up your discredit of Falun Gong. But if the time ever came when it had to choose you or the survival of the Ccp then it wouldn’t hesitate to fire off 200 nuclear missiles to the USA. I presuming that you live there.
So now you are of the Jewish faith Bobby congratulations for finding a path to your God.
While I am not of the Jewish faith, I recall Hebrews 9:27 “It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement” and wonder about the merit in such words.
So if we set the clock back 50 years Bobby and you were being persecuted, tortured and used as experiments. How would you feel about hitler and his evil regime.
Say your family, children and community were all rounded up before your eyes and put on the train to one of many concentration camps that you knew existed. But the world outside did not want to believe you nor really cared because they were doing big business with Germany.
So tell me this what would you do??
Wouldn’t you spend your life with the rest of the Jewish people trying to expose this horror??
You are treading on very dangerous ground here Bobby. I want to help you and I think deep down you know these reports are true.
What matters here is do you care?? Do you value Human life?
If you said yes to those questions then you are doing a wrong thing to vote for the Ccp who are antihuman, anti life murderers with no conscience. I appeal to your God side. Gods do not have respect for humans that kill other humans because they practice truth compassion and tolerance. Your God included. PLease other than trying to convince everyone on the blogs around the world that there are inconsistencies in this horrors please tell us why you support the Chinese communist regime lies?
It is true that Ccp killed 80 million of their own people in so called peaceful times. That’s a fact. What has changed today?? Nothing… they still deny that Tiananmen Square Massacres happened, that SARS didn’t exist, that they love and look after Falun Gong yet their politburo chiefs constantly send out New releases to step up the extinction and smash activities of Falun Gong not only in China but around the world.
If you answer this blog with anything other than an honest reply from your heart I think your denial to answer will implicate your entrenchment with the Ccp.
As Falun Gong practitioners we will forgive you Bobby, and its always much easier to stop doing what you are doing and be forgiven than continue on discrediting Falun Gong when you are running out of options to discredit us with. I hope with all my heart that you see the error of your ways and see the Godliness each human being has within if only he makes the right choice.
“Jana, common sense suggests “innocent until proven guiltyâ€.”
Mr Bobboy, don’t you know that in red China, “YOU ARE GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT”???
“Did you ever think about what will happen to a billion people if they ever get to the kind of statelessness we put Iraq in?”
There are more than 12 billion people in China, dude. And trust me, China will be much better off without commies.
“The Taiwanese reclaim Mainland and ROC is back in power? Be serious (Unless The ROC government is paying you guys to fight the Independence War in US public opinion realm with these fairy tales…)”
I can assure you, Mr Bobby, the people in mainland China will welcome the return of ROC with open arms. LEARN YOUR HISTORY(not from the commie history text books).
HI Dave,
IN China under the brutal rule of Ccp the innocent are automatically guilty and are never proved innocent or guilty because there is no independent system of law. The Ccp is the law and all people that that they are frightened of are arrested detained and are executed for their organs for profit.
the Ccp are frightened of People who good , those who try to better and improve themselves, people who work hard, people who respect all of life and cherish humanities, people who have good morals and honest and don’t cheat or bribe or hurt people.
According to the Chinese communist regime these people are all criminals. This is what they fear the most … innate goodness…
The evil communist regime is cracked, flawed and will go down in history as the most evil spectre ever to visit the planet.
Thanks to Falun Gong practitioners exposure and determination to stop this persecution the Ccp’s time left is very short indeed..
yep, history bears similarities, let’s hope that the CCP will go down like USSR did. I believe that China would have been a much better country if the KMT government were not overthrown by the CCP. Vietnam war and Korean war might not even take place, hmmm the possibilities…Oh well, there is still hope.
..Bobby Fletcher is a spy.
It has been brought to my attention a that person calling himself Bobby Fletcher is posting comments to many blogs – I estimate over 100 – trying to discredit the Kilgour/Matas report.
I highly suspect Bobby Fletcher, who in one blog denies he is Chinese, is part of China’s United Front Works Department, which is at the heart of China’s intelligence operations, which I briefly describe below.
Bobby who refers to living in Seattle, also uses two other aliases
Charles Liu and Sunday Service and he has five blogs of his own.
I think Bobby Fletcher AKA Charles Liu AKA Sunday Service AKA (fill in the blanks) needs to be outed, as although his lies are seen through by many, he will still create doubts in the minds of others many others and that is part of the tactics of the United Front Works Department – playing percentage games.
One only has to look at how tens of millions believed in Mao to know these techniques work.
Incidentally you will notice that he also has a web site that the
Tiananmen Square massacre did not happen.
Highlights of the United Front Works Department
The first words in Mao’s Analysis of the Classes in Chinese Society
written in 1926 begins:
Who are our enemies? Who are our friends?
This simple idea laid the foundation for the heart of China’s
intelligence operations known as political action work or political
work. In China it became known as the United Front Work whose
deceptive strategy is designed to win the support of nonParty
“friends” and to isolate and destroy “enemies.” Deception is a key
part of their strategy.
Chinese United Front Works Department are usually involved in letter writing campaigns and insight groups to complain about ‘racist’ remarks against the Chinese which often makes Western media fearful of offending the ethnic Chinese population and hence do not write articles that are negative about China.
Again its a simple idea, but it works and once one becomes aware of
it, one sees it in operation all the time.
Most of China’s intelligence activities abroad are legal. That is why they are so successful. But, most governments are completely ignorant about how Chinese intelligence operates.
China’s United Front strategy is based upon “co-opting whosoever can be co-opted and isolating your enemy.”
In their propoganda campaigns Falun Gong is clearly an enemy which it has isolated since 1999. So the campaign is on to discredit the report on organ harvesting and
create doubts about its credibility. And of course continue their
disinformation campaign about the Falun Gong.
My guess is that one of the letters #27 at
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600420/posts#comment?q=1
allegedly written by Dr. Marten is also by the United Front Works
Department and it may even be the same same persons using the alias Bobby Fletcher.
Bobby or Charles what ever you alias is your time is up if you dont quit the CCP now. Its the Chinese epople who have been duped the most through fear of the violence the CCp has inflicted on all Chinese people for the last 60 years.
The Chinese communist regime does evil that is against all of humanity. It an evil cult. Once you join up they never let you quit with out killing you.
The heavens will eliminate it if people don’t do it. You should quit the communist party now so you wont be affected when the heavens eliminate the CCP.
You can quit the CCP anonymously Bobby or Charles and wipe you soul clean from the mark of the beast.
http://ninecommentaries.com
China’s bloody harvest
Waiting times for organ transplants in China are a matter of days. Everywhere else waiting times are measured in years
David Matas National Post Wednesday, August 23, 2006
David Matas is a Winnipeg international human rights lawyer. The full report is available at http://organharvestinvestigation.net/
Is China harvesting organs of Falun Gong practitioners, killing them in the process? A Japanese television news agency reporter and the ex-wife of a surgeon in March made claims this was happening at Liaoning Hospital in SuJiaTun, China. Are those claims true?
The Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of the Falun Gong in China, an organization headquartered in Washington, D.C., in May asked former Minister of State for Asia and the Pacific David Kilgour and me to investigate these claims. We released a report in July which came to the conclusion, to our regret and horror, that the claims were indeed true.
The repressive and secretive nature of Chinese governance made it difficult for us to assess the claims. We were not allowed entry to China, though we tried. Organ harvesting is not done in public. If the claims are true, the participants are either victims who are killed and their bodies cremated or perpetrators who are guilty of crimes against humanity and unlikely to confess.
We examined every avenue of proof and disproof available to us, eighteen in all. They were:
– The Communist Party of China, for no apparent reason other than totalitarian paranoia, sees Falun Gong as an ideological threat to its existence. Yet, objectively, Falun Gong is just a set of exercises with a spiritual component.
– The threat the Communist Party perceives in the Falun Gong community has led to a policy of persecution. Persecution of the Falun Gong in China is officially decided and decreed.
– Falun Gong practitioners are victims of extreme vilification. The official Chinese position on Falun Gong is that it is “an evil cult.”
– Falun Gong practitioners have been arrested in huge numbers. They are detained without trial or charge until they renounce Falun Gong beliefs.
– Falun Gong practitioners are victims of systematic torture and ill treatment. While the claims of organ harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners have been met with doubt, there is no doubt about this torture.
– Many Falun Gong practitioners have formally disappeared; they are the subject of formal disappearance complaints by family members. Many more practitioners, in an attempt to protect their families and communities, have not identified themselves once arrested. These unidentified are a particularly vulnerable population.
– Traditional sources of transplants — executed prisoners, donors, the brain dead — come nowhere near to accounting for the total number of transplants in China. The only other identified source which can explain the skyrocketing transplant numbers is Falun Gong practitioners.
– Falun Gong practitioners in prison are systematically blood tested and physically examined. Yet, because they are also systematically tortured, this testing can not be motivated by concerns over their health.
– In a few cases, between death and cremation, family members of Falun Gong practitioners were able to see the mutilated corpses of their loved ones. Organs had been removed.
– We interviewed the Japanese journalist and the ex-wife of the surgeon from Sujiatin. Their testimony was credible to us. In order to be cautious, we relied on this testimony only when it was independently corroborated.
– We had callers phoning hospitals throughout China posing as family members of persons who needed organ transplants. In a wide variety of locations, those who were called asserted that Falun Gong practitioners (reputedly healthy because of their exercise regime) were the source of the available organs. We have recordings and telephone bills for these calls.
– Waiting times for organ transplants in China are incredibly short, a matter of days. Everywhere else in the world, waiting times are measured in years.
– Chinese hospital Web sites host incriminating information advertising organs of all sorts on short notice.
– A Falun Gong practitioner who had been in prison in China told us that her Chinese jailers lost interest in her once they found out that her organs had been damaged.
– China is a systematic human rights violator. The overall pattern of violations makes it harder to dismiss any one claimed violation.
– There is huge money to be made in China from transplants. Prices charged to foreigners, also available on a Web site, range from US$30,000 for corneas to US$180,000 for a liver and kidney combination.
– Corruption in China is a major problem. The huge money to be made from transplants, the lack of state controls over corruption and the marginalization of the Falun Gong are a deadly trio.
– Until July 1 of this year, there was no law in China preventing the selling of organs and no law requiring consent for organ harvesting. China has a poor history of implementing laws designed to ensure respect for human rights.
It is easy to take each element in isolation, and say that this element or that does not prove the claim. But it is their combination which led us to the chilling conclusion to which we came.
We are reinforced in our conclusions by the feeble response of the Government of China. Despite all their resources and inside knowledge, they have not provided any information to counter our report. Instead, they have attacked us personally and, more worrisome, attacked the Falun Gong with the very sort of verbal abuse which we have identified as one of the reasons we believe these atrocities are occurring.
Our report has seventeen different recommendations. Virtually no precaution one can imagine to prevent the harvesting of organs of Falun Gong practitioners in China is currently being taken. All these precautions should be put in place.
But there is one basic recommendation we make which must be implemented immediately. Organ harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners in China must stop.