Just Wondering …
If Robert Park’s “interview” with the North Koreans was coerced, why has he now missed so many opportunities to repudiate it?
If Robert Park’s “interview” with the North Koreans was coerced, why has he now missed so many opportunities to repudiate it?
Be nice, people. You can talk about ideas without talking about each other.
Last warning before I sic my moderation filter on your IP addresses. After that, I’ll have to approve your comments case-by-case.
Ernst wrote:
KCJ didn’t say doctors were looking after Park; his father, Pyong said it.
And please stop comparing Laura Ling and Euna Lee with Robert Park. Apples and oranges.
The journalists didn’t confront KJI with the message, “repent!”
The journalists didn’t demand that the borders be opened to NGOs immediately.
The journalists didn’t demand release of the political prisoners.
Even President Clinton with all the might of the USA behind him dared not utter a breath about the gulags, human rights or religious freedom.
Bobby Park went into North Korea utterly defenseless and did all the above.
The journalists were stored in a guilded cage for their inevitible release after the Obama administration allowed the Appeasement of KJI with the Clinton
visithumiliation.Robert Park was obviously tortured in some way and visibly lost a lot of weight upon release. Ernst’s conjecture that the only doctors around Park are psychiatrists does not pass the common sense test.
The journalists did present a potential threat to the regime inasmuch as they would have added to the swelling body of documentaries that chronicle the nightmarish existence of the North Korean People. But they never presented any real ideological threat to the Juche cult which is the heart of the DPRK’s manipulation machine. Robert Park aimed his arrows directly at the heart of the Juche cult and hit the bull’s eye (the Christian Gospel presents the greatest threat to Juche). Then Pax Koreana followed up with 150,000 leaflets explaining why Park came to North Korea before the KCNA promulgated the contrived ‘confession.’
You people who say it was foolish, not well planned or nullified by the obviously forced ‘recantation’ must be looking at a different body of evidence than the rest of us. If even 5-10 people read those Pax Koreana leaflets (and the assumption is the hundreds have) then the word on the street will penetrate further and faster and with more credibility than any sham promulgated by the predictible lying and spinning expected from the KCNA.
KCNA = Baghdad Bob.
Ernst wrote:
Ernst, I can’t see how you can judge ‘a person that’s extremely passionate in loving people, as in: caring for people’ as being scary.
And I don’t see how you can think that these kind of (christian) ‘fanatics’ can in any way be compared with (i) either the propaganda machinery praising the so-called loving care of the NK regime (by people like Alejandro Cao de Benos), or (ii) the writings of Mohammed which stimulate hate against what they call non-believers (because, according to Mohammed, these people do not believe the correct story, and do not obey Allah the proper way).
On the other hand, Jesus Christ teaches us (and the Christian ‘fanatics’ know that by heart, and try to put it into practice in their daily lives) that we humans should love each-other, AND love even our enemies!
Now, that kind of a ‘fanatic’ is Robert Park. He even genuinely(!) offered Kim Jong-il the gift of salvation – through true repentance, of course – and I believe in his heart there’s ONLY LOVE, and not a spur of hate or desire to exclude people (unlike the Muslim teachings do).
As far as your other statement is concerned:
If you don’t ever do anything, you cannot make any mistakes. And even a general in a war can make mistakes, causing many lives to end, even after thorough analysis and planning.
And, to quote a previous phrase of james: ‘it’s easy to be monday morning quarterbacks from our comfortable keyboards’.
Furthermore, there’s always a risk when living in the Sino-Korean border-area where even (brave) North Koreans themselves go back and forth to help their fellowmen inside the country. These men are taking risks, and they know it, and if they get caught they too can be broken by security agents to give them important names. Similar for the people that help refugees escape: They know it’s a risky business, and they still do it, because most of them are actually… yes, CHRISTIANS, and they know that there’s no such thing as helping the people of North Korea near the Sino-Korean border, and not get scarred in some kind of way, BECAUSE things in that area is risky business, and can’t always be done in a controlled way, because there’s too much emotion going on, life-n-death stuff – just like in a war where things aren’t always going according to plan, so that you will have to deal with unforeseen events happening.
And BTW, you and some others seem to be so sure that Robert Park’s spirit has DEFINITELY been broken by the NK security agents, so as to give them the names of important people in the underground railroad.
But actually, I’m not so sure about that. But then again, IF these really dark forces have been successful in using their horrible methods on Robert Park, then is he to blame that he hadn’t calculated that upfront?
I mean, give him a break, will ya. When is he ever going to hear some uplifting words from your side. Would YOU be willing to sacrifice your own life if it would free e.g. 1, 2, …, 10 or 20 North Koreans from the camps? Can YOU be that selfless?
You wrote:
The way you have been constantly misinterpreting Robert Park’s actions, I’m not so sure whether you know what my religion is – i.e. what the core values of it are.
You wrote:
What’s reality, Ernst? Going to work, business-as-usual, going to the Mall, watching your favorite TV-series, playing games, havin’-a-party, sitting cozy on the couch with your wife and kids every day of the week?
My reality – and that of Robert Park – is that there are innocent men, women, and children in those horrible camps, being butchered every day, and that it cannot be so that our lives will remain the same while these people are hammered down every day. Our lives will need to change drastically (as drastically as we possibly can in the position we’re in) to be of some use to the liberation of these camps. It’s an obligation we have – as a free world – to these people.
I will end with some quotes that I think relevant to Robert Park’s actions and our discussions here:
— David
Ultimately and only ultimately, we’re best of to agree to disagree.
Very interesting to have this discussion with David, KJC, Irene and hope Joshua doesn’t mind me wasting his blog storage.
But then again, we’re all adults here and I think we can all handle a bit of banter. Yes, its a bit personal, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing eh.
I will maintain that Robert Park is a fool, as a matter of fact, all these so called Christians here trying to defend his actions, only do so to close rank.
No evidence either that Robbie has been tortured, only the apologists seem to think so.
Most importantly, not all Christians are mentally stable, and Robert clearly fits that category. Anyone denying that Parkie doesn’t have a volatile mindset probably needs its own head examining.
Anyway, Robert tried and failed, and got egg on his face. Good for him, it might teach him a lesson.
Ernst wrote:
It’s not as though the conservative Christian contingent here pulled that out of thin air. Rather, I think it may be more incumbent on the naysayers of the report why they discredit the reports. At any rate, I don’t think they’re being unreasonable in assuming — until we hear it verified or not — that he was likely tortured.
I’ve been playing devils’ advocate vis-Ã -vis his alleged repentance in the KCNA interview, but it’s just that: in the absence of harder evidence, none of us really knows what’s going. But I think people are being reasonable in assuming a strong possibility of him having been tortured, brainwashed, coerced, or otherwise tricked into the “confession.”
As long as they acknowledge it’s just an assumption or speculation, and don’t treat it as fact when we don’t know for sure.
Responding to Ernst’s last comment.
Ernst wrote:
We certainly disagree, and you seem to enjoy it. For you it seems just a game of cat and mouse, for me it’s about the slandering of a man with very good intentions and a very big heart, and creating a vicious resentful atmosphere around him.
Ernst wrote:
Hope you feel better now…
Ernst wrote:
You should meet up with a Christian group sometime. Might change your narrow views about them. You seem to forget that ‘so-called Christians’ appear to be doing most of the risky work along the Sino-Korean border, as well as inside the dark country itself. And the target of your accusations, Robert Park, also did that kind of work along that border last year, and also helped poor Mexicans for many years. Probably something you can’t even come close to.
And BTW, Christians go for truth, not for backing up someone from their group. They are, however, not so eager as you seem to be, to pass an early judgment on someone; especially on someone that has a big heart for helping other people, and standing up for justice no matter what the cost might be for himself.
Ernst wrote:
As a Christian I just know that something has been done with Robert Park (my guess is: he’s now spiritually confused through blackmail with the lives of others by the NK regime), and when I did read his so-called statement of confession, presented by the NK media (which can be found on http://www.robertparknews.com), I just could tell that these words could never have been written down by a big heart Christian like Robert Park.
And I see kushibo doesn’t agree with you either (see his post here: February 13, 2010 @ 5:41 pm).
And BTW, we’re not apologists. Some of us – Christians as well as other people with a real burden for NK – just can imagine how Robert Park must have felt when being confronted with the horrors of the poor people of North Korea, and most likely still does – even more so, and even more determined after the gross trick of lies they pulled on him, I imagine.
Ernst wrote:
I agree that not all people that are Christians or call themselves Christians, stand as strong in life (yet) as intended. But, I doubt that you could discriminate one from the other.
Robert Park has more love and power than you can imagine – at this point in your life (but I sincerely hope this will change for you someday).
Ernst wrote:
It’s not speaking well for you to belittle such a courageous man, calling him ‘Parkie’. It reminds me of a ‘first grade’ attitude.
Ernst wrote:
You don’t know yet whether he failed. And I don’t see the ‘egg on his face’ yet, only slandering going on trying to make people believe he is getting ‘egg on his face’.
And I know for sure that it will indeed be ‘good for him’ and many poor North Koreans in the probably not so long a run.
What I’m not so sure about is, that YOU will accept the ‘lesson’ that YOU will need to swallow after all this speculation of yours appears to be based on very thin air.
Most people in the time of Jesus Christ didn’t understand what He was doing either, especially when He let Himself be crucified. You probably still don’t.
He managed to keep people’s attention for some two thousand years though. And He’s still mending people’s lives, teaching them how to love oneself and others.
How about you? What are you doing? And how will people remember you?
Ernst wrote:
Disagreed. Not a very interesting discussion, but a persistent, nagging, endless repeating of the same ‘arguments’ (actually views/opinions) over and over again. And the only positive thing about it is, that everyone now has a chance to see – if they follow the trail of all your comments re Robert Park (on the OFK site) – how very ignorant a person can be in maintaining his trenched-in views even in the face of so many knowledgeable arguments by various posters.
Ernst wrote:
Sorry, Ernst, hate to disagree once again. We’re not all adults here, I believe…
Now, I hope you don’t get all agitated with me over a few sarcastic tones I put in here and there. I believe you did your utmost to pull it out of me, so I guess you had it coming.
God bless you! That’s what I sincerely hope God will do one day! Rather sooner than later.
— David
Joshua, yesterday around 2pm I posted a larger comment. But it hasn’t been placed on this page yet. Could you see for me where it got stuck somehow?
TIA
— David
KCJ wrote:
Well, if the “reportedly” true report is true, there seems to me one glaring problem with prima facie acceptance that this is also how Robert Park’s statement was extracted: the methodology describe is for people, such as kidnapped fishermen, that the North doesn’t plan to release; Robert Park was released, and not too long after his “capture.”
Unlike the fishermen who remain in North Korea (and hopefully not for much longer), Robert Park has been let go and can tell us all about the veracity or bogusness of his “confession” and how it came to be made.
My friend Kushibo:
1. Robert Park’s situation is utterly unique and cannot be compared with Laura Ling/Euna Lee or ROK fisherman (which the Chosun ilbo did not attempt to do);
2. Park is still under the care of doctors and should be given the benefit of the doubt until he comes forward with his version of the story.
3. Should he remain silent, we must expect that this would be due to credible threats to harm innocents within the DPRK on his behalf.
I think eventually it will leak out that the contrived and strained ‘confession’ was made under various types of duress and is meaningless both inside and outside North Korea.
KCJ wrote:
You were the one who said that the Chosun Ilbo article was “the most definitive explanation I’ve seen yet of what probably happened to Robert Park,” not I.
And the only relevance to the Laura Ling and Euna Lee case is that they, without apparent torture (right?) claimed a kind of kinship with their captors. Were the DPRK authorities able to convince and/or dupe Robert Park by displaying or feigning humanity?
Benefit of the doubt? I’m making quite clear that I don’t know what went down; I’ve only offered speculation that torture is not the only way to extract such a statement and there’s the possibility — even if not the likelihood — that it is voluntary. But I don’t know. You, on the other hand, are quite certain that you’re right about it all, despite him not having come forward with his version of the story. In fact, the only thing “from him” is the confession, which he (oddly) is in no hurry to recant. That doesn’t sit well with me.
I’m sure you think that built-in reason is the only possible one.
I think his supporters have already been leaking this, whether it’s true or not.
Park is a youth and politically inexperienced. His solitary mission trip and illegal entry into North Korea — whether regarded as brave or stupid — is not conducive to making things better for North Korean people.
His circumstances were completely exploitable by the North Korean regime, and the police and security apparatus will now monitor the borders even more closely. There are other evangelizing strategies.