OFK Interview: Dr. Norbert Vollertsen

This interview was conducted entirely by e-mail because Norbert moves around so much. I believe he’s been in Pakistan helping earthquake victims there, or had at least been planning to do so with the Korean Medical Assocation, as he did after the Tsunami in January. Unfortunately, my e-mail truncated my last few questions, including the ones where I asked what was about to go down during the Arirang Festival up in the Emerald City. I’ve asked that question, and a few others, as follow-ups, so we may have the makings of a two-parter here.

Edits? Yes, but only obvious spelling and grammar errors I hope Der Spiegel would extend to me if the linguistic circumstances were reversed. Obviously, the hyperlinks are all mine, and I’ll be updating this post put to put those in throughout the day.

Tell us about you upbringing and how it shaped your character.

I was the only child of an ordinary assembly line worker and a housewife. I was a leftist radical student with all my friends belonging to the German communist party. I always wanted to become a lawyer, a book dealer or a social worker and only when I was invited for a volunteer week in a hospital i became fascinated about emergency medicine. I was always upset about the typical German mindset of “just following orders” – and therefore always wanted to oppose.

Some of your statements that I’ve read have been all over the map, politically speaking. How would you characterize your own politics?

Politically speaking I like it to be “all over the map”, to provoke and to be called crazy, in Germany an left-wing, even communist radical or crazy physician and in South Korea right-wing, CIA-spy and even fascist. My own politics: No more materialism, egoism, selfishness. As a medical doctor I learned that money, power and fame do not make happy.

Of all the places you could have gone, why North Korea?

Because there was no travel guide about it at that time in Germany – real hermit kingdom – and I am very curious.

Most of my readers already know the story of how you donated skin for a burned girl’s skin graft, and how the North Korean authorities awarded you a medal. How did it come to pass that you gained access to a car?

Like all the other aid organisations in NK we had our own cars and after I got the private North Korean driving license I “thought” I could go on my own ““ and nobody ever blocked me when I showed my “friendship-medal-VIP-passport” – it was something like psychological self-assurance.

How much freedom did you have?

Every freedom – because i never asked how much freedom.

Did you drive yourself?

Yes, no driver, no “coordinator”, no translator, no minders at all. What kind of car was it? 3 different [cars]: Toyota Jeep, Nissan SUV, and a little Daihatsu.

What do you do if your car breaks down or runs out of fuel in rural North Korea?

I asked my three machine gun-equipped soldiers (no kidding) whom I picked up when they were hitch-hiking to give some assistance when I had a flat tire while going from Pyongyang to Nampo for example – and they were able to do the job in just 10 Minutes!

Were you followed?

Sometimes, when I was too slow. When I carried around the US journalists I managed to get rid of them – thanks to more Japanese horsepower.

Where did you go?

Every place which was not allowed.

Describe the scenery of rural North Korea — more specifically, how were the roads? Did most people outside the environs of the capital have electricity, decent housing, and indoor plumbing?

Is it common to see animals used in agriculture? It looks – as one of my translators put it – like in the dark ages: The ox is pulling the plow, no electricity, no heating, no more trees, no more birds.

Jasper Becker’s book notes that the North Koreans intentionally decided to limit the number of roads in the countryside as a deterrent to invasion. I’m not asking for your opinion on this particular explanation, but does rural North Korea have large roadless areas?

Yes. But mainly because of lack of construction material.

How politically conscious are people in remote rural areas?

No information, no radio, no TV, no newspaper ““ they are fighting for day by day survival.

How many of them had ever seen a person who looks as obviously — how shall I say? — foreign, as yourself?

Very few. Most of them looked at me as if I am from Mars or Venus and the little children after they overcame their first fear always wanted to touch my blond hair.

How did they react to you?

Very friendly, polite, warmhearted. The ordinary North Korean are no devils with little red horns on their heads but nice human beings.

Did any of them express dissenting views or hostility toward their own government?

When they became more familliar because we stayed in some places for several months with weekly visits they even complained in fluent English or German about Kim Jong-Il and his policy–the more higher ranked the more outspoken sometimes.

Accounts I’ve read sometimes caused me to suspect that North Korean officials at the national level are black-hearted monsters, but that some of the officials at the local level try to get more food and resources for their people. Did you see any evidence of this?

The more close they are to hunger the more they will care – like all over the world.

You were one of the inspirations for my own site. Today, the world appears to have so much more understanding of conditions in the North. Even the United Nations is breaking with its apathy. I’ve credited you for this. Who else do you credit?

You [OFK: I’m now officially and deeply embarrassed for having asked this], Chun Ki-won, Tim Peters, Douglas Shin, Kim Sang Hun, Mr. Kato, Mr. Moon, Suzanne Scholte, Dr. Nam, Michael Horowitz, Abraham Lee, and . . . and so many other mostly unknown brave activists who are doing the risky work in the underground. I call myself sometimes rather the “public relation[s] manager” in contrast to the real heroes in the field.

You were reported as having made the following statements in November 2004: “We must rid our society of the “˜Axis of Evil? of Kim Jong-il and Roh Moo-hyun. Go out and march on Cheong Wa Dae. You are the only people who can save the Republic of Korea. Your critics seized on this, claiming it was a call to overthrow the South Korean government. Can you clarify what you meant by this? Do you think, in retrospect, that this was a bit inflammatory?

It was inflammatory in order to provoke. I learned this kind of speech strategy from the media, the politicians and the people who are upset about it.

Follow up question: You weren’t actually calling for the overthrow of the South Korean government, were you? I mean, other than at the ballot box?

Like in in Germany I will of course lobby for any “government overthrowing” only in a democratic process – and in North Korea too – and if they would like to continue with Kim Jong-IL throught the ballot box – it is in the end their Korean business. I am only a German who does not want to make the same mistake in history twice – not raising his voice when there are some even only rumours about concentration camps.

In fact, didn’t the whole move to impeach Roh essentially give Roh a sympathy vote and a reprieve at the polls? My view is that without the impeachment, Uri might well have melted down at the polls, and Roh might have resigned. After all, Uri has taken some real beatings in bi-elections since then [OFK: I prepared these questions two weeks before we learned yesterday that Uri has suffered another 4-seat lockout]. In retrospect, was the impeachment a good idea?

It was stupid.

Of the GNP politicians with any national prominence, Kim Moon-Soo and Hwang Woo-Yea are the only ones who seem capable of elevating the human rights issue to its proper place in the national debate. Yet they’re hardly on the radar screen as far as the next election is concerned. Do you see any cause for optimism among the GNP candidates?

Last week at a rally here in Seoul the “old guys” the first time lobbied for “human rights” and I am waiting for the day that also “progressive” students will follow.

Have you met any of them? What were your impressions?

I met Kim Moon-soo several times and as an old democracy fighter under the South Korean military dictatorship I think his statements are very important regarding any North Korean military dictatorship too.

The criticism of you that resonates with others in this movement is pertains to the embassy rushings. I’ll let one of my readers, who is left-of-center but concerned about human rights in the North, finish the question: “[A] few successful, dramatic, and highly publicized defections have led to a further Chinese crackdown on refugees and made their lives worse. Given the flawed DPRK defector policies of both China and the ROK, neither of which will change any time soon, is it not better to keep a low profile when orchestrating defections? Is this about leading refugees to freedom, or about creating controversy in the media?”

There was also North Korean and Chinese persecution of North Korean refugees before the “embassy stunts” – but unknown to the world – and that will make the difference. It is about liberating the North Korean people. After there was an assassination attempt on Hitler there was also a crackdown from German state officials. Every dictatorship will answer in the same way.

Why do you think the American media care so little about Korea, North or South?

Like German media: It is far away and there are so many other “problems” on earth like the latest movie actor scandal etc. – therefore you must create some “media events” in [today’s] news channel world with 24/7 breaking news.

What can we do to change that? Is there anything we can do–short of breaking laws or endangering lives–to change that, or are they just determined, for some reason, not to care?

Create a Hollywood movie like “Schindlers List.”

What is your view of North Korea’s decision to expel foreign aid workers and stop outside food aid? How many of those expelled by Pyongyang do you suppose will end up saying some of the same things you’ve been saying for the last several years?

North Korea wants to get rid of any future “crazy German doctors” etc. who are putting their noses not only in food distribution issues but also in prison camp locations. How many will speak out I do not know.

Under what conditions should we provide food aid to North Korea?

Monitoring with journalists instead of WFP officials.